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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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2. Rahkaro dying....WTF, he doesn't die in ACOK. I felt it was unnecessary. Where's he not as important as Jorah, ut was a surprise.

Was that Rahkaro? I think I heard the woman screamed Quohollo.

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I'm very surprised with how explicit they are being with things that are only hinted at in the books. I know GRRM works closely with the show, so I wonder if he's giving a silent nod to all of the theorizing that goes on in the forums or if the producers are just using their own theories. I mean, it's hinted enough times that Stannis and Mel have done the dirty but we are never really sure. There have been some amazing theories about what Craster does with his sons and giving them to the Others is not one that I bought into. I wish I knew if we can use the show to learn more about the books.

The book specifically states that's what Craster has been doing in two separate conversations: one between Jon and Gilly; then later between Jon and Lord Commander Mormont, clarifying that all the NW Rangers know about it and pretty much don't ice the old bastard only because his place being there keeps them alive at times. As for the rest: the book story is told exclusively through character POVs, so it wouldn't have been possible to show what Stannis/Melisandre were doing behind closed doors. We don't get a Melisandre POV until ADwD and we've never had one for Stannis to date. I, for one, think it's more than a theory, however; she gives birth to at least 2 of his shadow babies, one of which is witnessed first-hand by Davos.

I'm not entirely sure what that entire scene was even supposed to be telling us about Littlefinger... All of his previous scenes have already showed us that he's a player in the games and that he has no problem playing dirty so what new were we supposed to learn?

For me, this was more about showing his cruelty. Reading the books, crooked, slimy, and ruthless as we knew him to be, I recall being a bid surprised when we learn later that he's had poor little Jeyne Poole essentially sold into sex slavery. Doesn't ADwD mention her having scars from being whipped repeatedly or something to that effect?

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Was that Rahkaro? I think I heard the woman screamed Quohollo.

The subtitles of Dany speaking said Rakharo.

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I just finished watching, thank the gods for the DVR.

First and foremost, the changes: Bronn for watch commander, I'm not mad at. It keeps him in the show as opposed to Bywater who ends up a one-off. And let

s be honest, Bronn for president after Obama.

Casting: I don't have an issue with Saan being black. Someone once said they didn't like him being from Lyse and being black. Think about it, he's a pirate, all becasue he said that's where he's from doesn't me he is. Yara/Asha Im' not mad at either, who said she had to be a beauty queen? But the excessive finger play from Theon knowing the truth... I'd like to change the subject.

*Extra content* With this I mean the stuff not in the book. Stannis and Mel getting frisky toghether was often guessed at and rumored in the book, but to see it done in such a high handed and fankly distrubing way will keep me from sleeping soundly at night. I really think it was gratuitous like Renly/Loras last season. Also I think the scene between Roz and Littlefinger was the showrunners way of handing him his balls back after Cercei girlified him last episode.

Overall, I dug the episode. Everything from watching Yoren establish dominance to the gold cloak to the final confrentation between Cercei and Tyrion. It was a good time, no beer required.

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Yet, in the book, she squeezed his package, like, 4 times, and nobody is saying anything about that.

Truth be told, while I was reading, I was saying to myself he will never be able to stop washing those hands when he finds out this chick's his sister. She, however, has no excuse. That was so wrong.

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Ah, and also, say what you will about the Dragonstone scenes, but the visual composition is just brilliant. Fiery Melisandre standing before the Painted Table, behind her only the darkness of the night...

That's enough to make me shiver, more than any dialogue.

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Regarding Melisandre and Stannis, I wouldn't mind them having a sex scene eventually but not before Stannis receives any proper development or in this way. The lusty tv show Stannis comes off as a weaker character than the book Stannis who I also assume had sex with Melisandre. (and yes I think lust eventually became a more important part of their relationship, perhaps early on there was some, but not the way tv show Stannis reacted.)

Overall, Stannis character development is weak in the tv show, the viewers don't get a sufficiently strong sense of who Stannis is. His very strong opposition to brothels in the books, how incredibly determined and stubborn he is, how big of grudges he holds (him whining about Robert time and time again in the books, and how he treated him and how he trated Renly) , and other stuff, tv show Stannis just isn't sufficiently good character to me, so far. He has changed, and not in a good way which is disappointing because Stannis was a rather good character in the books. And even with the time constraints they have with only ten episodes, I think they could have done a better job, especially since they have time for that Ros scene.

Edited by Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren

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I didnt like Jon+Craster ending. Stop changing the story D&D!!! GRRM is a much better story teller than the both of you put together on your best day and improved by x10. Let the books guide the story!

Hated Roz and the brothel scenes. She will serve no purpose in the story (better not). There is no way in hell she can be a fake Arya.

Rhakaro getting killed off was stupid, but more forgivable than the others things.

Im starting to find im forgetting the details of the books as i only read them once. But i dont recall Joff ordering the killings.

Greyjoys were done ok. I thought Asha was not how i imagined. She looks too 'soft'. Certainly not the sort who commands her ship and kills men and throws axes. How do they think she is going to manage the Kingsmoot scene?

I rated it a 9 in the other poll thread but after a while of thinking about it i have changed my mind... it should be a 7.

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It starts out with him spying on his whores...are his whores his spies?...then turns disgusting when he wipes semen from a whores mouth and then watches her kiss a patron with that same mouth then he goes on to threaten Ros. All of his previous scenes have already showed us that he's a player in the games and that he has no problem playing dirty so what new were we supposed to learn?

I think LF's spying on spies was to show how how convoluted King's Landing politics really are. I'm sure his whores spy for him. The semen scene(as disgusting as it was) showed that LF can think on his feet and, ahem, keeps his customers happy. He got to where he is today on his smarts, not a sincecure from a lord. You know that from the books, but the casual viewer doesn't.

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Yeah TV Joffrey is older and somewhat less naive than book Joffrey and it does come of as believable. I don't have a problem with that change, I also liked how they made us wonder who was behind it, until of course it was revealed

I'm quite grateful for some of the changes; I could do without two exact versions of Cersei and Joffrey running around.

PS What the hell are warning points and why don't I have any of them?

Edited by Knight of Ashes

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Truth be told, while I was reading, I was saying to myself he will never be able to stop washing those hands when he finds out this chick's his sister. She, however, has no excuse. That was so wrong.

What I meant was everybody is disgusted by him touching her, but she did it to him in the book... numerous times, once even at the feast AFTER being revealed as his sister.

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Regarding Melisandre and Stannis, I wouldn't mind them having a sex scene eventually but not before Stannis receives any proper development or in this way. The lusty tv show Stannis comes off as a weaker character than the book Stannis who I also assume had sex with Melisandre. (and yes I think lust eventually became a more important part of their relationship, perhaps early on there was some, but not the way tv show Stannis reacted.)

Overall, Stannis character development is weak in the tv show. His very strong opposition to brothels in the books, how incredibly determined and stubborn he is, and other stuff, tv show Stannis just isn't sufficiently good character to me, so far. He has changed, and not in a good way which is disappointing because Stannis was a rather good character in the books.

Same feelings here. I just don't get the sense of 'iron' from TV Stannis. He's not physically impressive, particularly compared to the actor portraying Davos.

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Same feelings here. I just don't get the sense of 'iron' from TV Stannis. He's not physically impressive, particularly compared to the actor portraying Davos.

Yep. Also I agree with this:

- Mel promising Stannis a son. This doesn't jive with me. I'm fine with them fucking since it obviously happened in the books, but Stannis wanting to father a bastard boy makes zero sense.

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Just to get it out there, I think the killing of Rakharo was due to the actors schedule, not the producers wanting to kill off a character who lives through the books.

Just wanted to quote this for anyone who missed it.

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Same feelings here. I just don't get the sense of 'iron' from TV Stannis. He's not physically impressive, particularly compared to the actor portraying Davos.

When I first saw TV Stannis, the first thought that came to my mind was that he looked like a young Alastair Sims portraying Scrooge.

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So did they just get rid of Shireen? I heard Mel say something about Stannis only having still borns.

Still possible she meant stillborn sons, but I think it's probable Shireen's not going to be in.

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I'm yet another who does not like TV Stannis. TV Stannis is not steel, he is soft lead that melts in Mel's hands. He doesn't even look like Stannis.

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