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Envie

[Book Spoilers] Crying Ros Scene

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I would gladly have traded last season's LF/Ros scene for this one, as this one just as effectively (if not moreso) portrays LF as a cutthroat who will fuck someone over at the drop of a hat.

As it is, this scene was redundant in its purpose as we already know what a dick HBO-LF is, a fact the producers seemingly feel the need to remind us of at every turn.

**Edited for clarity

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Do you really think that a pimp cares if his whores hate him or not? They live in a clean environment, receive regular meals, get to wear nice clothing and are not going to be beaten. If they didn't fear him, they would not be manageable and Littlefinger, is smart enough to know that a battered and bruised whore is useless, so psychological abuse in the smartest way to go, because no one can see the damage. He gave her the day off simply because she was not going to make him any money that day. It's about controlling his product and making a profit, nothing more and nothing less. These women/girls are disposable and easily replaced. If they didn't know that upon arrival, they will learn very quickly what the rules are. No one would care if a whore wound up dead. Most would say that she deserved it, simply because she was a whore. Pimps know this. I liked the scene being that it shows Littlefingers true colors. He's not the soft spoken smiling nice guy that he puts on to the rest of the world.

Littlefinger doesnt present himself as a nice guy. He presents himself as an arrogant and well connected guy that can help you out is oh so many ways. He makes himself available to everyone to curry favors and establish himself as a great ally while he builds his power base. And for the most part that's all a fair presentation. Littlefinger generally rewards people around him, makes himself and everyone money, and knows what's going on as well as anyone in politics.

As far as Ros goes, Littlefinger doesnt owe her anything and he doesnt need to be nice to her. He's being a lot nicer to her than most pimps would be. He does her a favor by giving her the day off to grieve and makes it clear that she can't cost him business when she comes back the next day. That's more than fair. If Ros's job is to make customers happy (she is a whore after all) then she's being pretty damned unprofessional when she chases away customers with her crying. Yes, it's understandable why she's upset. But you can't insult your customers when they havent done anything wrong either.

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He is a sexual predators if you cannot see that by his dealings with Sansa...

If you have HBO, surely you didn't miss HBO's Cathouse? Which is about a pimp/Dennis Hof, a businessman born to an average working class family who owns The Moonlite Bunny Ranch and is known as Pimp Master General. Littlefinger IS a pimp by modern definition.

Littlefinger actually doesnt fit the definition of sexual predator very well. He's really not shown to be very interested in pursuing women for sex. If anything, he's the opposite of that. Littlefinger pursues power through various means. Go do a search on the definition of sexual predator and think about it for a few minutes. (or use this one: The term sexual predator is used pejoratively to describe a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" manner.)

You can make a very weak case that everything that Littlefinger has done has been in pursuit of Sansa, but that's clearly just conjecture. Littlefinger's nature isn't sexually predatory. He's just a very smart and successful guy with low moral character. He may do a lot of things that you don't agree with, but that doesn't mean he's a sex predator.

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Oh, and while it's not really a big deal, I thought the scene where Littlefinger wipes some "fluids" off the whore's mouth was disgusting. I hate to sound like a prude, but I do NOT want to see that level of sexual content on Game of Thrones. HBO went too far with that one.

lol but you are a prude.

anyone who can't even bring themselves to the point of typing, sperm, semen or cum and instead puts fluids in quotation marks is pretty damned prudish.

the scene was a bit much, it was a bit of comedic relief in that it shows his respect for the patrons of his establishment.

also it won't have been too traumatizing for the actress involved as she is used to having real loads on her face.

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I would gladly have traded last season's LF/Ros scene for this one, as this one just as effectively (if not moreso) portrays LF as a cutthroat who will fuck someone over at the drop of a hat.

As it is, this scene was redundant in its purpose as we already know what a dick HBO-LF is, a fact the producers seemingly feel the need to remind us of at every turn.

**Edited for clarity

Out of curiosity, how would you have handled Ros in Littlefinger's situation?

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Littlefinger actually doesnt fit the definition of sexual predator very well. He's really not shown to be very interested in pursuing women for sex. If anything, he's the opposite of that. Littlefinger pursues power through various means. Go do a search on the definition of sexual predator and think about it for a few minutes. (or use this one: The term sexual predator is used pejoratively to describe a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" manner.)

You can make a very weak case that everything that Littlefinger has done has been in pursuit of Sansa, but that's clearly just conjecture. Littlefinger's nature isn't sexually predatory. He's just a very smart and successful guy with low moral character. He may do a lot of things that you don't agree with, but that doesn't mean he's a sex predator.

Book LF preys on the weak in order to obtain another person for the use of another person's sexual predation. What would you call that? I can't quite recall who exactly it was for, but there are instances in the books where he discusses acquiring boys to give to this lord or that lord as payment. It's pretty explicit that he's not just giving them boys as squires. These be unwilling bed boys he's talking about. Sounds predatory to me.

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Ok so probably repeating others, but I was unhappy with the Ros scene and will continue to be...unless somewhere down the road we get some sort of payoff from it. Who was LF talking about? Was this a scene to show LF's cruelty and to foreshadow somone else? Either way though, there were many other plot lines that could have been covered rather than this scene pulled from thin air. For a show that has been cutting characters out why would it spend time on a made up character? I know that this series is not going to follow the books 100% and that is ok as long as the spirit is kept intact. So far this season I feel like series LF is not like book LF. The writers made him appear postively stupid in the first episode during his interaction with Cerci. Book LF would never have been so clumsy and blatent. Just as I feel like book LF would not make such an explicit threat like he did to Ros. There is very little subtlety in LF so far this season. Plus double eew on the whore clean up :ack:

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Littlefinger doesnt present himself as a nice guy. He presents himself as an arrogant and well connected guy that can help you out is oh so many ways. He makes himself available to everyone to curry favors and establish himself as a great ally while he builds his power base. And for the most part that's all a fair presentation. Littlefinger generally rewards people around him, makes himself and everyone money, and knows what's going on as well as anyone in politics.

As far as Ros goes, Littlefinger doesnt owe her anything and he doesnt need to be nice to her. He's being a lot nicer to her than most pimps would be. He does her a favor by giving her the day off to grieve and makes it clear that she can't cost him business when she comes back the next day. That's more than fair. If Ros's job is to make customers happy (she is a whore after all) then she's being pretty damned unprofessional when she chases away customers with her crying. Yes, it's understandable why she's upset. But you can't insult your customers when they havent done anything wrong either.

Yes he does try and come off as a nice guy to Sansa and the Arryn banner men who he needs. I never said that LF owed Ros anything. He is a slimy pimp, period.

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Littlefinger actually doesnt fit the definition of sexual predator very well. He's really not shown to be very interested in pursuing women for sex. If anything, he's the opposite of that. Littlefinger pursues power through various means. Go do a search on the definition of sexual predator and think about it for a few minutes. (or use this one: The term sexual predator is used pejoratively to describe a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" manner.)

You can make a very weak case that everything that Littlefinger has done has been in pursuit of Sansa, but that's clearly just conjecture. Littlefinger's nature isn't sexually predatory. He's just a very smart and successful guy with low moral character. He may do a lot of things that you don't agree with, but that doesn't mean he's a sex predator.

So, he's not grooming Sansa, right?

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Book LF preys on the weak in order to obtain another person for the use of another person's sexual predation. What would you call that? I can't quite recall who exactly it was for, but there are instances in the books where he discusses acquiring boys to give to this lord or that lord as payment. It's pretty explicit that he's not just giving them boys as squires. These be unwilling bed boys he's talking about. Sounds predatory to me.

Even if I agreed with your statement, none of that particularly fits the definition of a sexual predator. To be a sexual predator Littlefinger should be more personally involved in stalking someone in one way or another.

Do me the courtesy of actually trying to understand the term 'Sexual Predator' as it exists today instead of trying to frame an argument to fit a word someone may have misused. Go take a quick Google for the term so you have some independent sources. 'Sexual Predator' isnt a term we just came up with on this forum. It has a real-world legal meaning and context. Littlefinger's character doesnt fit that very well.

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So, he's not grooming Sansa, right?

I'm not sure what he's doing with Sansa. He may be obsessed with her and possibly trying to succeed at his failed relationship with her mother. He may only be using her as a venue to accumulate more power. We really don't know. Either way, it's not what you wouldnormally call a sexual predator. Littlefinger is not pursuing his victims for SEX. If anything, he's fairly disinterested in sex from what we've seen. Littlefinger does seem most interested in power. He's definitely ambitious and morally questionable. That doesnt make him a sexual predator as the term is used today.

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I'm not sure what he's doing with Sansa. He may be obsessed with her and possibly trying to succeed at his failed relationship with her mother. He may only be using her as a venue to accumulate more power. We really don't know. Either way, it's not what you wouldnormally call a sexual predator. Littlefinger is not pursuing his victims for SEX. If anything, he's fairly disinterested in sex from what we've seen. Littlefinger does seem most interested in power. He's definitely ambitious and morally questionable. That doesnt make him a sexual predator as the term is used today.

A sexual predator does not pursue a victim for sex. Rape is about power.and control. And he has absolutely set everything up so Sansa is completely under his power and in his control and feeling as if she has no choice but to obey him. I'm not going to guess at the author's intent with the storyline but my opinion is Sansa is nothing but an object to to be possessed the way Cat never could be much like Ted Bundy's victims possessed a resemblance to a woman that had spurned him earlier in life.

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Everything with Ros is a waste of time. We know Petyr is evil. Was putting a dagger to Ned's throat not enough to convince the audience? They're forcing more screen time on Petyr than he deserves this season.

Totally agree! Too much Petyr Baelish. And that's not needed...I mean the audience should have understood how cunning (in a bad way) he is. He's selfish, has a fix on Cat and he's greedy!

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A sexual predator does not pursue a victim for sex. Rape is about power.and control.

You are dead wrong in that statement. Sexual Predators absolutely are pursuing someone else for SEX. Thats the very essence of the term. Rape isn't even worth getting into here, since it's not relevant to the discussion.

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I liked the scene. The show has taken the decision to show Petyr a bit more and in that regard it did a fine job. I require more of myself than to be a slave of what I've already read so I'm fine with some changes.

As for the the comments that the scene is not needed because we know Littlefinger is bad, that just makes me laugh. Like we didn't learn that Joffrey is a sadistic bastard in the first book and, by your arguments, therefor could have been without his constant cruelty...

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You are dead wrong in that statement. Sexual Predators absolutely are pursuing someone else for SEX. Thats the very essence of the term. Rape isn't even worth getting into here, since it's not relevant to the discussion.

Keep reading on the wikipedia page you took your definition from and you'll see it has little do with sex and everything to do with power and control.

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:) Well, I'm convinced we must be reading two different books. Littlefinger has always been creepy. What would you call looking at Sansa as though she has no clothes on? Or wanting to get married to her when her father died, or treating her as a Cat-replacement object? You may not know it, but modern day pimps consider themselves businessmen too. Sexual exploitation and manipulation are the very means by which LF got into the game. Sleeping with Lysa Tully, making her believe he loved her so that she would get her husband to employ him etc etc. I'm not saying the man doesn't have brains, but he's based his whole move from lowborn foster child to small council member on the backs of women. Threatening Cersei was uncharacteristic, I agree, simply because book LF would be smarter to threaten a Lannister still in power. But book LF would absolutely threaten a low class prostitute with no power. Why is this so hard to fathom?

Why is it hard to fathom? You're speculating what Littlefinger absolutely might do if YOU wrote the book because that's your opinion but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has to think its that simple. Or as we have seen in the show, HBO producers write it how they think it should be played. Myself and most others? We're referring to how Littlefinger is written by George R R Martin and he is not that weird, creepy, predatory. Sure, there are some low-ball slimy things he does, but not act like a thug. A lot is left up to the imagination of the reader, which is one of the gifts Martin has as a writer. He never HAD to say this sort of stuff the way HBO is hitting us over the head with it. It was implied and the reader made their own character portraits from the scenes given. I'm not sure why you're really bent on saying this absolutely would happen when it didn't. The scene was nowhere in the books nor was Ros or any of the brothel details.

Of course this is just an adaptation and of course HBO is well within the boundaries of the plot to change character portrayals how they see fit for their viewing audience that typically, like past popular series (Sopranos, Deadwood etc) the truth is, viewers like their drama heavy and dripping with sex and violence. That's why these books DO translate well to film.

I still stand by my opinion the scene gave little substance or value to the story. I've defended the addition of Ros to the cast many times, but not this time.

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The overuse of Ros makes her seem more important than she is - a blank wall that important characters speak at.

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You are dead wrong in that statement. Sexual Predators absolutely are pursuing someone else for SEX. Thats the very essence of the term. Rape isn't even worth getting into here, since it's not relevant to the discussion.

It's not just about sex, but even if you want to make that the strict criteria then yes, LF is a sexual predator and a pervert. He is procuring boys for Lyn Corbray and making Sansa kiss him and sit on his lap. What definition other than sexual predator do you want to apply to this behaviour?

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Why is it hard to fathom? You're speculating what Littlefinger absolutely might do if YOU wrote the book because that's your opinion nothing else. Or as we have seen in the show, HBO producers write it. Myself and most others? We're referring to how Littlefinger is written by George R R Martin and he is not that weird, creepy, predatory. A lot is left up to the imagination of the reader, which is one of the gifts Martin has as a writer. He never HAD to say this sort of stuff the way HBO is hitting us over the head with it. It was implied and the reader made their own character portraits from the scenes given. I'm not sure why you're really bent on saying this absolutely would happen when it didn't. The scene was nowhere in the books nor was Ros or any of the brothel details.

My goodness, this is ridiculous. LF's status as a creepy predator is directly referenced in the books. I already gave the example with looking at Sansa as though she's naked; add to this kissing her while building the snow castle, wanting to marry her after Ned's death, giving Jeyne over to be trained in his brothels, sourcing boys for Lyn Corbray, making Sansa kiss him, sit on his lap for "daddy time" and what in the name of the seven do you get but a sexual predator??

I still stand by my opinion the scene gave little substance or value to the story. I've defended the addition of Ros to the cast many times, but not this time.

It showed for viewers who might not be familiar with the books just what this man is capable of. Forget him as the wizard of the game for a moment, and think of the man's innate character, especially as it relates to his treatment of women in the text. It's despicable, and throughout this book he's going to be putting his plans in place for Sansa with Dontos etc. THIS is why viewers needed to understand that he's not simply a suave game player, he's a low life pimp who doesn't care past his bottom line. If this doesn't jive with the image you have of LF in your head, then too bad.

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