If the Greyjoys do attack Oldtown.......?

[Frey Pie]

Oldtown wont be taken by the ironborn except through treachery or magic. The Hightower can raise over10000swords. The ironborn may be able to scrape together20000at most. Massive wall+10000defenders against at most20000more skilled attackers? I can only see the defenders winning

For the battle above i have to agree with Free Northman. However i do hope Victarion somehow bests Euron in the end and pokes out his smiling eye

[James Arryn]

The tyrells are basically sitting on the Iron throne, why would they attack one of "their" provinces, with a family they are allied with(and loosing grasp on KL)? Bending over the Ironborn, finishing to bend over the North and when news break bending over Griffin would be the Iron throne top priorities.

It would not need to be an open alliance, but the Tyrells could easily see it as clipping the Lannister's wings, if you'll forgive the inaccurate imagery. And, in addition to solidifying themselves as the masterhouse, there is the small matter of why the Lord of Flowers is near death. It would be payback in kind to tell them the fleet needed to save Lannisport is too valuable protecting the realm, etc.

[Free Northman]

Oldtown wont be taken by the ironborn except through treachery or magic. The Hightower can raise over10000swords. The ironborn may be able to scrape together20000at most. Massive wall+10000defenders against at most20000more skilled attackers? I can only see the defenders winning

For the battle above i have to agree with Free Northman. However i do hope Victarion somehow bests Euron in the end and pokes out his smiling eye

It is possible that Victarrion - after being duped by Euron with the Dragon Horn, is left at Dany's mercy, and through his anger joins her as her admiral or whatever.

But the point is, that will be after the Dragons have already been bound to Euron. So Victarrion may get revenge at the end of the series - if he lives that long - but he is not going to be the dragonmaster. He will at most be a servant of Dany.

Most likely though, he will die in the next book.

[mor2]

It would not need to be an open alliance, but the Tyrells could easily see it as clipping the Lannister's wings, if you'll forgive the inaccurate imagery. And, in addition to solidifying themselves as the masterhouse, there is the small matter of why the Lord of Flowers is near death. It would be payback in kind to tell them the fleet needed to save Lannisport is too valuable protecting the realm, etc.

The way I see it the lannisters are exhausted, their most influential members are out of the picture and the Tyrells are in the best position to influence the king. thus, they already won, there is no need to waste money, men lifes and ravage your country for what can be just as easily achieved through politics. Espcily when they still have the Ironborn to deal with and finish the North.

[Fat Mac]

For the battle above i have to agree with Free Northman. However i do hope Victarion somehow bests Euron in the end and pokes out his smiling eye

I'd be surprised to see Victarion come back to Westeros alive. I think Aeron will be Euron's downfall, not Victarion.

[The Last Direwolf]

Could the Hightowers alone rebuff their advance?

I mean, the Hightowers and the houses sworn to them? Think they could field enough men to do so?

If Euron waits until the Iron Fleet returns (as I believe he will), probably not. The ironborn are fiercesome fighters, well experienced and blooded with a merciless commander, whilst Oldtown hasn't seen serious fighting for at least 300 years since before the Targaryens landed. If they had the aid of other houses (The Tarlys, Redwynes, etc) it is possible for them to throw off the ironborn. Lord Paxter helping Oldtown would be in his interest as well, because if the city is taken not only does the Reach lose it's main trade port, but the Arbor or Highgarden would likely be next on the ironborn's hitlist. Whereas Lord Paxter could arrive there in time, Lord Tarly is holding Duskendale (or was it Maidenpool?) with his levies and knights, so getting back to the Reach in time could be problematic. And then of course, they can't expect much help from Lord Tyrell as he is sieging Storm's End and soon may be fighting off Aegon and Dornishmen (unless he joins them, of course). In other words, if they ironborn smash the city with their full strength, chances are it will fall.

[Top Notch Balanter]

If you look at history we see that the last siege the Ironborn performed was at Seagaurd where they were soundly defeated by the Mallisters so i don't know if they will be able to take a place like Oldtown

[Ser Me]

They could of course pull a Trojan horse by taking the Redwyne fleet and just sail/row right into the harbour.

If they are able to subdue the Redwynes...

[The Last Direwolf]

They could of course pull a Trojan horse by taking the Redwyne fleet and just sail/row right into the harbour.

If they are able to subdue the Redwynes...

How on earth are they meant to conquer the Arbor without the Hightowers finding out? The moment the Redwynes fall, Oldtown will know.

[Free Northman]

How on earth are they meant to conquer the Arbor without the Hightowers finding out? The moment the Redwynes fall, Oldtown will know.

He probably means capturing the Redwynne fleet en route to Old Town. The Fleet is currently racing down the Narrow Sea to try and get to the Shield Islands to take on the Ironborn reavers.

Personally I don't believe the Greyjoys in their small longships are strong enough to take on the 200 strong Redwynne war fleet without Victarrion's Iron Fleet, but knowing Martin he might pull a fast one or a "trick" again to make it happen.

[unRobert]

I love the ironborn plot, but I sincerely hope it doesn't go too far. It's already unrealistic that they're powerful enough to achieve what they have in the books.

They should be depleted after that rebellion- if the ironborn truly fight and behave the way they talk, then all their greatest warriors should have been slain in that rebellion. But now they have enough men and ships to threaten Highgarden and Oldtown? And this is with Victarion and the "best of the iron fleet" half a world away.

20,000 men? No. No way, that was the army mustered out of the North, you cannot tell me that the Iron Islands can field an army half the size of any of the greenland kingdoms. They are meant to raid and fight at sea, I can't see them taking any major Southern lands.

But I'm sure even crazy Euron knows this, hence his dragon need.

[Ser Me]

He probably means capturing the Redwynne fleet en route to Old Town. The Fleet is currently racing down the Narrow Sea to try and get to the Shield Islands to take on the Ironborn reavers.

Personally I don't believe the Greyjoys in their small longships are strong enough to take on the 200 strong Redwynne war fleet without Victarrion's Iron Fleet, but knowing Martin he might pull a fast one or a "trick" again to make it happen.

That's what I meant indeed. I'm also not that sure they can take over their fleet, hence the if at the end of my last comment, but that is one way I can think of to take over Oldtown.

[The Last Direwolf]

I love the ironborn plot, but I sincerely hope it doesn't go too far. It's already unrealistic that they're powerful enough to achieve what they have in the books.

They should be depleted after that rebellion- if the ironborn truly fight and behave the way they talk, then all their greatest warriors should have been slain in that rebellion. But now they have enough men and ships to threaten Highgarden and Oldtown? And this is with Victarion and the "best of the iron fleet" half a world away.

20,000 men? No. No way, that was the army mustered out of the North, you cannot tell me that the Iron Islands can field an army half the size of any of the greenland kingdoms. They are meant to raid and fight at sea, I can't see them taking any major Southern lands.

But I'm sure even crazy Euron knows this, hence his dragon need.

The Greyjoys were depleted after their rebellion, yes, but they've have 12 years (?) to rebuild after that, and the green lands have literally just been wrecked with civil war, famine and rebellion. Attacking the Reach perhaps weren't their best idea, as the Westerlands were just as defenseless, much richer, nearer, had already been wrecked by Robb Stark and would have been a larger symbolic loss to the Iron Throne, the Queen's own family coming from that kingdom.

The Ironborn fielding an army of 20,000 is also possible, just. The North probably could have fielded 35-40,000, but they only took the best of their levies rather than every single able man, and that was with the North being the most sparsely populated region in Westeros, so it stands to reason that the Iron Islands should be able to support 10-15,000 soldiers. If they conquer more lands in the Reach and force the lords there to swear fealty to the Seastone Chair, the levies of those places would also be added to the 15,000.

[James Arryn]

The way I see it the lannisters are exhausted, their most influential members are out of the picture and the Tyrells are in the best position to influence the king. thus, they already won, there is no need to waste money, men lifes and ravage your country for what can be just as easily achieved through politics. Espcily when they still have the Ironborn to deal with and finish the North.

I think you misunderstood my point.

Which was that the Greyjoys would be best served by patching things up with the Tyrells, wherein the Greyjoys (not the Tyrells) would attack the Westerlands, and the Tyrells would expand their power over the throne and be unable to send the West any help under the same guise of 'sorry, realm to protect' banner than Cersei had used with them.

Nothing at all about the Tyrells invading the West.

[cuendillar]

That might even have been their plan all along - strike the Tyrells hard while the better part of their army and fleet are absent and take "soft" targets like the Arbor and sack a few minor towns and forts to enrage them. Then make a U-turn while the Tyrell forces are back in the south and strike at Lannisport instead leaving only a token force in the Reach to keep the Tyrells from helping their uneasy allies.

Once the gold mines and defensible chokepoints of the Westerlands are under their control, the sheer wealth would make them a major powerfactor - enough to strike back south. Ships move much faster than armies and the ability to strike in unexpected places is something Euron is well able to use.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

The Hightowers have enough manpower to take on the ironmen, but Euron has always been the most cunning of the Greyjoy brothers, and he knows he wouldn't be able to take a large fleet to Oldtown without being spotted. It also has to be factored in that Redwyne's fleet is going to come into play. If Euron wants to take Oldtown, he might send a chunk of his forces onto the beach to attack by land while the rest of his fleet attacks by sea, having Oldtown surrounded.

We also do not know where Aurane Waters is with Tommen's royal fleet that Cersei handed to him.

[Hear Us Roar]

Yes if only they don't attack directly. They will have to have a plan.

[Red Rain]

the ironborn are like the dothraki in many ways and what robert says in season one of AGOT would come into play as siege doesnt fit in with the old way :)

[Fire Eater]

That might even have been their plan all along - strike the Tyrells hard while the better part of their army and fleet are absent and take "soft" targets like the Arbor and sack a few minor towns and forts to enrage them. Then make a U-turn while the Tyrell forces are back in the south and strike at Lannisport instead leaving only a token force in the Reach to keep the Tyrells from helping their uneasy allies.

Once the gold mines and defensible chokepoints of the Westerlands are under their control, the sheer wealth would make them a major powerfactor - enough to strike back south. Ships move much faster than armies and the ability to strike in unexpected places is something Euron is well able to use.

I don't think so, the gold mines are deep inland, and they can't fight on land they don;t have the discipline to withstand an armored charge.

[Patchface12]

I think they will. I remember Shagwell telling Brienne that Faithful Urswyck and some of the Bloody Mummers were headed for Oldtown. I could definitely see them joining up with Euron and helping him take the city if that's his plan.

If you can give low lifes like the Bloody Mummers a compliment, its that they'd make good Reavers.