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Lord Davos Seaworth

The future of Jaime and Brienne?

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I could see the potential of her sacrificing her life for his in the LSH situation, however I think they'll survive it because-


Their story is the dark horse of the series imo. A lot of people don't think much of it but I think they're wrong.


The symmetry between Brienne and Dunk


Jaime's redemptive arc (the most profound in the series) as well as his dreams and visions.


Their quests being separate but similar-both traveling with Paynes. Both overcoming obstacles. Both thinking about each other and trying to keep their promise to Cat pre-LSH.


So much has been put into that particular story line that I don't see it ending abruptly or with betrayal. And I don't see Brienne killing Jaime for any reason.


It is definitely a love story, though that doesn't mean I'm expecting a happy ending. I envision some kind of acknowledgment of their feelings and then a Butch and Sundance style leap into the next battle for the dawn or the fires of KL (that Cersei will probably start). Actually the fire would probably be more likely, since it would be yet another parallel between Brienne and Dunk ie Summerhall.


Which will be incredibly sad, but worthy of the characters.

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I think at least Jaime lives at the moment. I mean he has been lost in the Riverlands for weeks(it is said so in one of the last Kingslanding chapters in ADWD), with no news. If LSH has killed him, then it should be known by now. So no news is good news. Less sure about the others though, I don't think that someone would recognize Podrick's corpse, he is far less known than the Kingslayer.


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The man will reply - Because we found Cats daughter. Queen Cersei has her. [ Sansa is kidnapped from the Vale and taken to KL by now]

BWB cannot save Sansa now from Cersei, Only Jaime can. So he lives. And so does Brienne.

GRRM has been building to something in the Vale, as well as introducing/building characters and the way they interact. Unless he introduces another POV in the Vale (unlikely), then I don't think he'll be moving Sansa out of the Vale until some significant things happen there. In fact, I'd be surprised to see Sansa in KL at all (been there, done that... why set her story back a whole book?)

However, there's a chance this situation could work with Jaime being needed to save Edmure for instance. Or perhaps for Jaime and Brienne to do at the Twins what Jorah and Barristan did at Meereen. It's hard to say, because neither UnCat, Jaime or Brienne seem to have reached any sort of natural conclusion in their overall stories.

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It is definitely a love story, though that doesn't mean I'm expecting a happy ending. I envision some kind of acknowledgment of their feelings and then a Butch and Sundance style leap into the next battle for the dawn or the fires of KL (that Cersei will probably start). Actually the fire would probably be more likely, since it would be yet another parallel between Brienne and Dunk ie Summerhall.

Which will be incredibly sad, but worthy of the characters.

They might just find a moment for a kiss and a shag, too!

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I'd love to see Brienne "not maid anymore" of Tarth with Jaime...I feel like she should get rid of this name and have the chance to experiment love, and why not, sex, and I do believe Jaime could be the one for her. I do also feel like one of them is gonna die, even if don't know which one, but I think that, if GRRM will give 'em even just a second together, I wouldn't feel so upset after all, 'cause one will carry with love the memory of the other, and that would be at least a bittersweet ending. Even better if Brienne is the one who survives, with a baby lion is her belly, but maybe is flying too high...

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I've reread the chapter last night, first time I reread it, and it became obvious for me that the word was "sword", yet, I still can be mistaken.

I actually read somewhere that George confirmed this in an interview when the audience guess correctly; so yes the word is "sword" which I imagine means that Brienne will uphold her promise to Cat to yield her sword at her command.  Now this could also be twisted I am sure.  Also, I can remember if this was said in the book or not but in the show when Brienne offers her services to Cat but asks not to be held back re Stannis Cat tells her that she would never ask her to do something that would bring her (Brienne) dishonour and arguably lying to Jaime and lead him to his death could be construed as dishonourable.  I really can't wait to see how this unfolds in Winds of Winter but I expect since it has been a while since we last heard from this lot should be relatively soon in the book...

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I'd love to see Brienne "not maid anymore" of Tarth with Jaime...I feel like she should get rid of this name and have the chance to experiment love, and why not, sex, and I do believe Jaime could be the one for her. I do also feel like one of them is gonna die, even if don't know which one, but I think that, if GRRM will give 'em even just a second together, I wouldn't feel so upset after all, 'cause one will carry with love the memory of the other, and that would be at least a bittersweet ending. Even better if Brienne is the one who survives, with a baby lion is her belly, but maybe is flying too high...

I would love for those two to get together too although like you I fear that at least one of them would die.  My feeling is that if she dies first or lets him kill her in some sort of trial by combat or something then of course this is unlikely to happen.  I am pretty sure that he has a role to play with Cersei yet and I reckon both twins will die at the same time but hell if Brienne was with child by him that would be awesome in my humble opinion.

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Yeah, but a part of me just can't shake the feeling that it would be so incredibly ironic. This is Jaime Lannister, Kingslayer, brother and lover to the Queen, son of the great Tywin, brother of the greater Tyrion, the man that pushed a kid out the window within the first hundred pages of the first book, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, and a hundred other glories and titles that I could make up and probably delude myself into actually believing. Having him die off screen (off page?) would just be so... well, ironic. I can almost see GRRM going there. :leaving:

 

 

 

That reminds me. Bran is actually one of the only reasons I think Jaime might still be around. Since the first book, I've always felt like there would have to be another confrontation between Bran and Jaime. Somehow. Maybe it'll just be Bran watching through a tree, but I think he needs to at least see Jaime again and recognize him as the man who pushed him.

Yes, the fact that Bran so far hasn't remembered how he came to "fall" is something left purposely unresolved to keep it potentially suspenseful at a later time in the story. 

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Oathkeeper and the fact that it was forged from Ice.  Do you guys think this is plot relevant?

I have been wondering about this for a while, especially since the plot is now looking towards a confrontation between Brienne and Jaime versus UnCat and I just feel that the fact that it was made from Ned's sword is more than a coincidence.

I sort of have a gut feeling, but not as yet terribly substantiated, that Oathkeeper will eventually kill UnCat for good.  I don't expect it to happen straight away when Jaime and Brienne met with her next because I feel there is more to UnCat's arc yet to be revealed but it wouldn't surprise me either if one of her daughters wouldn't be found, at this stage not likely yet though, unless it is Sansa in TWOW and her being the person yielding it.  Saying this because no matter how much we might all love our dearest departed family members I don't think many of us, once some grieving has taken place, would want them back like that.  One of the reasons also that I am dreading how Jon is to come back... but I am digressing.  Also, George said that Sansa will have a "controversial" chapter in TWOW.  This is more likely to involve Littlefinger and probably an attempt to kill Robin or something of that ilk but still I wonder...  Killing her own undead mother would also make her story a little parallel to Tyrion's although her motives would be more morally acceptable, although whether this is relevant or not would depend on who she is destined to end up with or this parallel would not make a great deal of sense.  Also I have an incline that the Hound (still alive and not undead) will kill Robert Strong, another kinslaying parallel...

What leads me to this is a little hard to explain convincingly as it all seems very far fetched and many things would have to come together for it to be the case.  However, we know that you kill Whitewalkers with fire (or obsidian), now how does one kill undeads resulting from the Lord of Light (and fire)'s intervention?  My guess is that, given the name of the series, is ice.  Obviously not ice in the conventional way, like being at the Wall wouldn't kill them I don't think but a sword with a name like that???  I don't expect for a moment either that these two swords forged from one simply named Ice because I guess it had to have a name would be the only thing that can kill them, there has to be something else too but no idea what just yet,   Still, I think this sword is likely to serve a purpose other than just being a token of friendship/love from Jaime to Brienne.

Whatever your thoughts, guys, would love to hear them. ;)

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Oathkeeper and the fact that it was forged from Ice.  Do you guys think this is plot relevant?

I have been wondering about this for a while, especially since the plot is now looking towards a confrontation between Brienne and Jaime versus UnCat and I just feel that the fact that it was made from Ned's sword is more than a coincidence.

I sort of have a gut feeling, but not as yet terribly substantiated, that Oathkeeper will eventually kill UnCat for good.  I don't expect it to happen straight away when Jaime and Brienne met with her next because I feel there is more to UnCat's arc yet to be revealed but it wouldn't surprise me either if one of her daughters wouldn't be found, at this stage not likely yet though, unless it is Sansa in TWOW and her being the person yielding it.  Saying this because no matter how much we might all love our dearest departed family members I don't think many of us, once some grieving has taken place, would want them back like that.  One of the reasons also that I am dreading how Jon is to come back... but I am digressing.  Also, George said that Sansa will have a "controversial" chapter in TWOW.  This is more likely to involve Littlefinger and probably an attempt to kill Robin or something of that ilk but still I wonder...  Killing her own undead mother would also make her story a little parallel to Tyrion's although her motives would be more morally acceptable, although whether this is relevant or not would depend on who she is destined to end up with or this parallel would not make a great deal of sense.  Also I have an incline that the Hound (still alive and not undead) will kill Robert Strong, another kinslaying parallel...

What leads me to this is a little hard to explain convincingly as it all seems very far fetched and many things would have to come together for it to be the case.  However, we know that you kill Whitewalkers with fire (or obsidian), now how does one kill undeads resulting from the Lord of Light (and fire)'s intervention?  My guess is that, given the name of the series, is ice.  Obviously not ice in the conventional way, like being at the Wall wouldn't kill them I don't think but a sword with a name like that???  I don't expect for a moment either that these two swords forged from one simply named Ice because I guess it had to have a name would be the only thing that can kill them, there has to be something else too but no idea what just yet,   Still, I think this sword is likely to serve a purpose other than just being a token of friendship/love from Jaime to Brienne.

Whatever your thoughts, guys, would love to hear them. ;)

Sorry folks, I am new here and I meant to create a new thread not to post this here.  Any ideas how to move this?

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I imagine they'll try to make a break for it, taking Pod along with them.

Hell, throw Gendry in there because poor Pod shouldn't have to be the third wheel.

I definitely expect Pod to play a part in this.  He was beyond awesome at the Blackwater and I think, like Sam, for all his apparent ineptitude the guy can kick ass when the chips are down.  Whilst in both their services he bonded strongly with both Tyrion (who is Jaime's sibling) and Brienne (who probably talks about Jaime even casually more often that one would do with someone one is not in love with...) so his loyalty will go to them for sure.  I have just posted something concerning Oathkeeper and wouldn't it just be awesome if Brienne was disarmed by Jaime (say in trial by combat) or by someone else (doesn't really matter), Pod saw the chance when people were concentrating on the fallen warrior and stubbed Stoneheart, well through the heart with it?

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I personally think there might be a trial by combat, similar to what happened with Dondarrion and Sandor in SoS, with Brienne forced to fight Jaime. Obviously in his current state he's not going to be able to stand up to her, but I don't think he's going to die just yet (Valonqar) so someone will likely intervene--possibly Podrick?

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On 09/07/2015 at 2:15 AM, Lion of Lorath said:

 

GRRM has been building to something in the Vale, as well as introducing/building characters and the way they interact. Unless he introduces another POV in the Vale (unlikely), then I don't think he'll be moving Sansa out of the Vale until some significant things happen there. In fact, I'd be surprised to see Sansa in KL at all (been there, done that... why set her story back a whole book?)

 

However, there's a chance this situation could work with Jaime being needed to save Edmure for instance. Or perhaps for Jaime and Brienne to do at the Twins what Jorah and Barristan did at Meereen. It's hard to say, because neither UnCat, Jaime or Brienne seem to have reached any sort of natural conclusion in their overall stories.

I agree that Sansa is very far from being removed from the Vale just yet; she has a role to play there I am sure.

The encounter with UnCat is what I am trying very hard to figure out but keeps escaping me lol

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Fascinating that so many would be happy to see Brienne with the Kingslayer, Sister-Banger, and Royal-Bastard-Begetter, but have problems with Sansa with Sandor Clegane. Talk about hypocrisy.

Just saying. For what it's worth, I like Jaime.

Edited by Karmarni
Punctuation

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2 hours ago, Karmarni said:

Fascinating that so many would be happy to see Brienne with the Kingslayer, Sister-Banger, and Royal-Bastard-Begetter, but have problems with Sansa with Sandor Clegane. Talk about hypocrisy.

Just saying. For what it's worth, I like Jaime.

Personally I'd be happy to see both :)

I think what tends to put people off with Sansan is a) Sansa is very young (Brienne is too but not that young), physically fragile, while the Hound is extremely violent, drinks too much, has long-lasting ptsd... Overall their relationship is darker, more violent, and has some rape-y undertones.

That being said, I still dig it, basically because Sansa digs it, and it's utterly fascinating.

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On 01/08/2015 at 6:47 PM, Rider on the Storm said:

I'd love to see Brienne "not maid anymore" of Tarth with Jaime...I feel like she should get rid of this name and have the chance to experiment love, and why not, sex, and I do believe Jaime could be the one for her. I do also feel like one of them is gonna die, even if don't know which one, but I think that, if GRRM will give 'em even just a second together, I wouldn't feel so upset after all, 'cause one will carry with love the memory of the other, and that would be at least a bittersweet ending. Even better if Brienne is the one who survives, with a baby lion is her belly, but maybe is flying too high...

That would probably be my preferred outcome too; I really think it is very unlikely that he will survive at the very end but I am also certain that he will survive Stoneheart and I hope that both do at that stage at least lol

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4 hours ago, Karmarni said:

Fascinating that so many would be happy to see Brienne with the Kingslayer, Sister-Banger, and Royal-Bastard-Begetter, but have problems with Sansa with Sandor Clegane. Talk about hypocrisy.

Just saying. For what it's worth, I like Jaime.

I think it is not necessarily hypocrisy but preference.  Brienne/Sandor I personally feel would be more compatible than Sansa/Sandor too.  What I base it on is that both Jaime and Sandor are swordsmen they have something in common with Brienne, stuff they can talk about.  Brienne I love but she is not chatty social type either so they are more akin.  I think although Sansa may be very attracted to Sandor he is not a man of many words and unless she had friends around her, like when she had Jeyne in Winterfell (although I know she is a different person now) I just think that once the passion settles into routine there would only be the fact that he has been good to her and chivalrous to hold them together.  I  could well be wrong and sometimes people who appear very different work out well in real life but I think she would need a few maids or someone for chatter and company.  I don't doubt there is a soft side to him and that once he has taken his revenge on his brother out of his system he will mellow down but he is not remotely a fun loving, party type of person and I think that she, no matter how much she matures, becomes powerful and all the rest would miss those more social moments.

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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I think Brienne losing her "maidenhead" to Jaime is very likely, and I really hope this happens. There has been enough foreshadowing for it, anyway.

Also believe Brienne will ,outlive Jaime, probably survives the series, and if she does with a child in her belly I'll be completely satisfied. It also perfectly fits the bittersweet ending announced by George.

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1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Personally I'd be happy to see both :)

I think what tends to put people off with Sansan is a) Sansa is very young (Brienne is too but not that young), physically fragile, while the Hound is extremely violent, drinks too much, has long-lasting ptsd... Overall their relationship is darker, more violent, and has some rape-y undertones.

That being said, I still dig it, basically because Sansa digs it, and it's utterly fascinating.

I personally don't see how people can see something consensual (say Sansa and Sandor) as "rapey" in the environment they are in the books.  In today's society, yes, she would be underage, so her and anyone would be child abuse but where they are this is the norm.  People fight, die young, life is brutal, it's how it is so women marry much much younger as do men, so I don't find it a problem in that context at all.

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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