[Book Spoilers] Ep 203 Discussion

[boojam]

Is Gemma Whelan ever going to get more than about 6 lines to say?

She has to do it mostly through facial expression.

As I have noted her resemblance to Patrick Malahide (as a daughter) is more marked than I have noticed before.

As of right now why does Balon get all the best dialog?

Maybe Gemma and Alfie will get a longer conversation later?

I noticed in Gemma's facial inflection last night , as if , under the surface she had some concern for her brother.

O wait! Who the hell was the dude over there of the left of Balon and Asha during the 'water' ceremony?

Edited April 16, 2012 by boojam

[legba11]

To add to what I loved in this episode. Arya sharpening her sword to help relax. Just like dad and her favorite half-brother.

[mrnegativity]

Awesome post re: Loras and Renly, Mr. Rockroi. Completely agree that it was more painful to watch Renly's inability to be aroused by his hot, hot wife than to watch him passionately kiss his main dude. For an HBO 'sex scene' the whole thing in the tent was handled very well. Get over the gayness people!

I disagree re: Yoren, though.

Aside from the fact that he is a badass (and the books support this), there are plenty of characters who have died less-than-heroic deaths in the TV series. For example - you mention Jory, arguably Ned, poor old Lemmy, the squire that fought Gregor, etc. - all died quick, brutal, and arbitrary deaths.

Moreover, there _will be_ plenty more quick, brutal, and arbitrary deaths. Surely we're allowed a few heroic exits here and there! :D

[Kaitscralt]

I loved this episode so much. Really great. Might end up going down as one of my favorites of the entire series when all is said and done.

Here are my only three nitpicks:

1) I love Peter's Tyrion and his scenes are always among the episodes best. But I wouldn't have minded seeing one other story arc instead of so much Tyrion.

2) Alfie's Theon plaed into the slap a bit strong. He, like, flew across the room as if the Incredible Hulk had struck him. But his father is a scary guy, and maybe just is -that- strong.

3) The ending shot of the bull helmet was a bit anti-climatic after seeing the kid run off with it five minutes earlier and then die. That kid doesn't exactly look like a blacksmiths apprentice either, but nobody said the Lannister men-at-arms were smart.

[David Selig]

Really good episode. I really liked most of it - Brienne is spot on, the way Renly and Margaery are developed is really interesting and well presented, Theon's standing up to his father and asking him why he got the blame for Balon's failure was something I've wondered a few times why he didn't do in the books and was done very well. Tyrion's scenes were excellent, some of the best Dinklage moments yet, the way he said "Make do" to Shagga about the goat was awesome. Michelle Fairley was impressive as always. Memorable ending too, I'd sure miss Yoren a lot.

The only thing I didn't like was the Sansa - Shae scene, it felt pointless and Sansa was a bit too petulant.

I am really interested how the idea of getting LF involved into Jaime's release will develop. It has the potential to be either really good but a lot of things can go wrong if the writers are not careful. Another meeting between LF and Cat is certainly something I'd love to see, there's so much potential for good drama there.

Edited April 16, 2012 by David Selig

[boojam]

I agree with you. I'm a woman but that was one of my complaints. However I could have ignored her look (Like I ignore the fact that Theon and Balon look nothing like the books) if she actually played Asha like she's supposed to. She' funny, witty, and has a great deal of charisma. Gemma is just....bleh.

As I have said before , except for initial descriptions, George is inconsistent in character physical descriptions.

First he says Brienne is as ugly as a mud fence, then throughout ASoS Jamie describes her as homely.

To me the important thing about Asha is her Alpha-Female-ness , regardless of appearance.

Gemma is a good actress, but I lay it at the feet of , well maybe it's D&D writing, instructions to the directors and teleplay writers as to what her demeanor should be. The can't seem to hit the right groove.

Seems they have her shadowing her father too closely when we know her character is that and also her own construct.

Maybe when Gemma has more than two lines and 30 seconds on camera we will get to know Asha better.

[lmanion]

Hodor says Hodor when bran is warging Summer not sure if its the first time this series but cant remember it from the other times he has been in a scene :P

[The Nerdly Knight]

Reeds are cut :( Sorry to break it to you. It sucks.

Booo! No Reeds moving castle, greenspears, or the such? That stinks.

[Lord of Cheese]

I really liked this episode. Best of the season so far.

I loved Summer's eyes!!!

NO ROS!!! wow what a difference that makes.

One thing that bugs me is Magaery's raised lip on one side. But she is super stunning.

I really would have liked the rainbow cloak to make an appearance.

By the gods Brienne was tall. Or Cat is really small hehe. Brienne isnt that ugly here. Not as much as in the books.

So much to like about this episode.

[Tres]

Gregor Clegane

Anyone's got info on him if the recast rumours are true?

It blows terribly if its so.

[Howland Reed]

Pros

- I thought Theon did a fantastic job, his sister on the other hand is just not how I imagined her, but i'm sure her personality will play out soon enough. Theon is killing it though, I tip my hat to him. When he burned that letter I was like... shit... if only I could tell you what is to come.

- Tyrion's Scene with Little Finger/Pycelle/Varys. I thought they made that scene very well.

I'm sure there are more, but those two really stood out for me when recalling the episode.

Cons

- A lot of people hating on Shae. I would have to agree to an extent. Her character just seems a bit different than how I saw her in the book. She seems like a huge biatch in the show, like she runs the place. It wasn't a make or break thing for me.

- Renly/Loras/Marg I just did not know how to perceive that whole scene. Seemed a bit strange to me. I see where they are going with it, Marg seems a bit more conniving than I ever expected, but that's just my opinion.

All in all, I love the book so much that I appreciate anything even remotely following the story, and honestly I couldn't even fathom making a show out of it, and these guys are doing a great job at it.

Also Brienne was casted well, love that character.

One last thing. Biter/Rorge don't seem nearly as intimidating as I always thought they were. They seem like normal people where as I always imagined them as these big burly vile cruel m*therf*ckers. Just my take.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Howland Reed

[Greywolf2375]

Best episode of the season so far...a few big things bugged me, a few details I thought they could have done better but most of it knocked the story out of the park.

Meh:

- so in the end Craster knocked Jon out for no apparent reason aside from an artificial cliff hanger.

- Renly has a "Kingsguard", really? If what we are told is true, there shouldn't have been any problem with keeping it as the Rainbow guard.

- another hamfisted sex scene. wee. What bothers me about the series - last year and this year - is that there is almost no subtlety - instead of putting together pieces to figure out things about Marg, we get smacked in

the face with "I'm a PLAYER IN THE GAME!". I don't blame the actors & actress for that - I think they did a great job with what they were given. I don't blame them for trying to cut things out to shorten the connection points....but there's nothing to figure out. I don't care if they brought in a goat for a 4some - we can actually learn things without it being book ended with sex.

- Shae - just not liking how she is being portrayed

yay:

- Brienne, basically everything

- Tyrion - owns each scene he is in. The transitions from Pycelle to Varys to LF in the Myrcella triangle was perfect. I may be misremembering, but wasn't the Cersei crying in front of Tyrion scene left out? That I thought was an important piece to their relationship - competitive, hateful even but truly still family.

- the Jon - Mormont interaction - gave Jon another lesson that leadership isn't what he thinks it always is

- Yoren - I was fine with the change from them being in a small fort (though tactically it made no sense). Taking the crossbow bolt and then whipping ass was a little much, but it did back up the bravado he showed to the gold cloak.

[Balintos]

Jon said:

"He's murdering his own children.

He's a monster."

...

"I saw...Something take

that child."

Do you think that he meant by "murdering his own children" that he give them away? Or he saw Craster killing his son and after that he gave his body to the Others?

[Daktura Nurovaia]

Other than the gratuitious gay sex scene, it was a great episode.

Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if for many people on this forum it would not have been better if Disney had taken up the task of adapting ASOIAF instead of HBO...

[Arkash]

One other thing I loved during this episode: the character of Raff Sweetling... I think they found the perfect actor for him ! His playing when looking over the injured Lommy Greenhands was amazing!

[Pliskin]

I was about to cry at the scene with Theon's letter.

It brought back all his arc from ADWD and...

Great episode.

[Ran]

That's Polliver, not Raff, on the show. Don't think there's a Raff cast.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ran

[Arkash]

Oops, yes, sorry... you're right. Got confused by the way he sounded so much like Raff with Lommy: almost nice and sweet, but yes, this is Polliver, thanks for the correction!

[Daktura Nurovaia]

About Asha/Yara, I thought she was mediocre. Not great, but not terrible. I'm hoping she gets better at the role as the show progresses and begins to really show her charisma and fighting attitude that make her so popular among the Ironborn (and readers/viewers). She smirks and jokes in the show, but it's just way too subtle.

I think that the problem might be that we haven't yet seen any scenes with her interacting with her crew/regular ironborn males. If I remember well, In the books, that's how she initially came across to me as a charismatic woman, a leader figure, a woman who commands the respect of her men through her achievements (witty replies to randy jokes, holding her liquor like a Russian peasant and playing potentially crippling games with sharp instruments being counted among those). That said, I'm not entirelly optimistic about the casting, but I'll wait and see...

[sennahoj]

One thing I forgot to mention was Tyrion getting some "remedy" from Pycelle which I am quite sure is destined for Cersei in the next episode. So while Cersei will be indisposed for parts of episode 4, that gives Tyrion the opportunity to start putting into place his defense plans for King's Landing without her interference. At least I am hoping to see some wildfire and the chain links too.