[Book Spoilers] Ep 203 Discussion

[J_Crews]

Just a thought-

I hope we get some Tickling done on the way to Harrenhal. Otherwise, perhaps the most gratifying set-up in the entire series gets missed: "Is there gold hidden in the village? Silver? Gems? Do you know where Berric Dondarion is? How many men does he have? How many mounted? How many foot? Is there gold hidden in the village?...

Call me sick- but Arya yelling that as she stabs the Tickler is among my favorite bits. That one's got the wolf's blood for sure.

The preview for next week seemed to show some torture of captives happening at Harrenhal, so all may not be lost. I too want to see the setup you're talking about. It made my heart happy when he got his just deserts.

[TheDrawback]

I think this was the best episode so far although too bad they didn't have a bigger budget. Would love to see Hot Pie scream HOT PIE!!!! in the battle and the part were Pycelles member is cut off was left out too. Also do you guys think Dagmer Cleftjaw will be left out according to Theon only getting one ship in stead of the score he got in the book? Would be quite hard to make the Winterfel plot or they could probably just use someone else.

The Shea scenes were a bit boring but everything else was just great. Looking forward to downloading next weeks episode.

[BlackTalon]

At no point is Pycelle´s member cut off. That doesn´t happen in the book.

Edited April 18, 2012 by BlackTalon

[Harle The Handsome]

What. I don´t get it ....? Arya getting the coin from Jaquen is nowhere near the end of ACOK, and her leaving Westeros is near the end of ASOS, why would the finale of Season 2 be called Valar Morghulis?

This is what she says as she slits the throat of the gatehouse guard

Edited April 18, 2012 by Harle The Handsome

[Buckwheat]

I have not read the whole thread, so I do not know if it was said yet, but Sammy after his conversation with Gilly is adorable.

[Lyanna Stark]

Have you? Sansa and Jeyne poole whinnying whenever they see Arya, her telling Arya "It will be a SPLENDID feast, you shan´t be wanted", her opinion of Mycah and od Arya interacting socially with PEASANT SCUM, she doesn´t even go into the stables because they are such terribly smelly places... and you think she isn´t bitchy? Yes, she can be very sweet and pleasant ... to lordlings and princes.

And which book is that? ACOK? No, it's in AGOT. In ACOK Sansa is never bitchy, not once. This season is ACOK; not AGOT.

The whole point of Sansa's development in late AGOT and later on is to dissuade her of the notions of shallow prettiness and valiant knights which she held in AGOT. This should be impossible to miss.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lyanna Stark

[TheDrawback]

At no point is Pycelle´s member cut off. That doesn´t happen in the book.

Huh thought i read something about shagga bursting in swinging his axe and cutting it off or something xD Was a while back though am now almost through Dance :P

[Harle The Handsome]

Huh thought i read something about shagga bursting in swinging his axe and cutting it off or something xD Was a while back though am now almost through Dance :P

No, Shagga broke down the door with his axe, but Tyrion told him to cut off his manhood and feed it to the goats in order to freak out Pycelle. The only thing that got cut off was Pycelle's beard.

[TheDrawback]

No, Shagga broke down the door with his axe, but Tyrion told him to cut off his manhood and feed it to the goats in order to freak out Pycelle.  The only thing that got cut off was Pycelle's beard.

Aaaah crap looked so much better in my immagination xD

[boojam]

I just saw that the season finale is named (as many of us thought so) Valar Morghulis :drool:

I just saw that too. does not say who is writing it.

I wonder if that means Arya stays at Harrenhal from E4 to E10?

Seems that , may, refer to Weasel Soup , departure of Jaqen and the escape from Harrenhal.

Weasel Soup is the longest sequence of Arya-Jaqen interaction, I hope they keep it.

Wonder what of CoK has been pushed into S3?

In S3 figure the Arya travelog with Gendry and Hot Pie will be shortened, tho there are nearly 8 chapters of it, seems like a big chop.

Then Arya's travels with the Hound begin. There is a ton of Arya's story in ASoS, she shouldn't get to the Stalpans till the end of episode 4! In fact that episode could be called valar dohaeris.

Like many others I think ASoS is the best novel in the series hope they don't rearrange it too much.

Edited April 18, 2012 by boojam

[Arkash]

Weasel Soup is the longest sequence of Arya-Jaqen interaction, I hope they keep it.

I agree, they cant skipp it... but I would never have imagined "Valar Morghulis" to be the title of the season finale...

My deepest feat there is that they make her leave Westeros in this episode and skipp her whole storyline in Storm which would be... an awful choice... but I'm sure I'm wrong and they are just using this title to remind of the importance of it and so the show watchers will remember it, and strongly possible that we'll have a lot of Arya there !

[Greywolf2375]

To be fair, Shae does become her handmaiden in the book.

Why dont people let this play out a bit instead of ranting after 2 minutes of screen time.

Just like last week when people were all in a hissy over the cliffhanger with craster, and that turned out perfectly fine.

So what was the point of Craster knocking out Jon? How did it add to the story? It was a contrived cliffhanger for no point other than "end of episode".

The point most are trying to make is in that two minutes of screen time we get nothing from Sansa or Shae that develops anything related to the story. If it was to show that Sansa is becoming more aware of her surroundings & that this person might be a new spy - that was done in the first 15 seconds. After that it was pointless.

[The Monkey]

I agree, they cant skipp it... but I would never have imagined "Valar Morghulis" to be the title of the season finale...

My deepest feat there is that they make her leave Westeros in this episode and skipp her whole storyline in Storm which would be... an awful choice... but I'm sure I'm wrong and they are just using this title to remind of the importance of it and so the show watchers will remember it, and strongly possible that we'll have a lot of Arya there !

No way in hell.

This episode last episode will probably contain her escape from Harrenhall, and her cutting the guard's throat (which I saw a major character moment in the novel, hope they don't cut it). In the novel she gets the coin from Jaq'en before Roose arrives, but they can easily rearrange it so that she gets the coin after Roose's arrival, right before she leaves.

Or the title could just, like someone said, refer to the fact that she says it right before slitting the guard's throat in her last CoK chapter.

[Silverx2]

So what was the point of Craster knocking out Jon? How did it add to the story? It was a contrived cliffhanger for no point other than "end of episode".

Maybe YOU got no point other then "end of episode" but for all the HBO subs who have not read the books, they got a very real clifhanger. Last season we saw the 'main character' get his head chopped off. GOT is a no holds barred type TV show, and if you are able to leave your audience(the majority at least) on the edge of their seats in high anticipation for the next episode you will see rating increases.

If you want to get more indepth beyond the "business" of a TV show it also resulted in other things.

1.)it reminded the viewers that something else is out there. something not human.

2.)It showed that Jon Snow despite being good with a sword is still very green(running into a situation without thought, or awareness) And that despite all that, if he tries to save a baby he does not know. Selfless acts are the ones of heroes.

3.)It gave an inside look at how Grey the world really is, even someone as "good" as the nightwatch will let something continue to happen, if it means ultimately their rangers will have a safe place to stop beyond the wall.

4.)It showed that despite that The old Bear DOES care that its happening, and also reaffirms his feelings that Jon would make a good leader. You can see this when he gives Jon the sword back

5.)It shows that Craster, Despite being a fucking bastard, is still a human, and isnt just some blood thirsty monster. He could have killed snow, but he didnt, he let him live, and he let him leave with all his appendages.

6.)it verified whats happening to the sons.

None of those reasons might mean anything to you, and thats perfectly fine, but news flash, this show isnt being made for you. It's being made for a wider audience full of people who have never read the books..

The point most are trying to make is in that two minutes of screen time we get nothing from Sansa or Shae that develops anything related to the story. If it was to show that Sansa is becoming more aware of her surroundings & that this person might be a new spy - that was done in the first 15 seconds. After that it was pointless.

You say that now, but again you have no idea whats written for the next few episodes, so like i said before, how about you take a breath, and wait til next week and see how it plays out.

[True Northerner]

Sansa is not bitchy in the books, how on earth are you reaching that conclusion? Have you READ the books at all?

And what "only potential ally"? Shae is supposed to be Sansa's ally how? And why? Seriously, no. It's not anywhere in the books, nowhere.

We could have got some real Sansa exposition, some interaction with the Hound, her torment with Joffrey, anything. Instead we get....Shae. They have what? Two scenes together in ASOS? Ridiculous, just utterly, utterly bad.

Sansa's ASOS arc is going to come straight out of the blue and her interaction with Dontos and the Hound? Ignored. Completely and utterly ignored.

Ummm.. I'd say until being with Littlefinger in the Vale, she's pretty damn bitchy. It's pretty bitchy to let your sister's little friend take the fall because you have a crush on a prince. And by ally, I don' mean in the way sense. I mean in the sense that she has no friends in KL (at this point), no one to talk to. So instead of seeing Shae as someone who is there to help her out, she yells at her, she totally freaks out.

It's so obvious that she was taking out all her frustrations and anger on this random woman come to see her. It's like when your boss at work yells at you, and then you go home and yell at your spouse. It's deflected anger.

[Buckwheat]

Ummm.. I'd say until being with Littlefinger in the Vale, she's pretty damn bitchy. It's pretty bitchy to let your sister's little friend take the fall because you have a crush on a prince. And by ally, I don' mean in the way sense. I mean in the sense that she has no friends in KL (at this point), no one to talk to. So instead of seeing Shae as someone who is there to help her out, she yells at her, she totally freaks out.

It's so obvious that she was taking out all her frustrations and anger on this random woman come to see her. It's like when your boss at work yells at you, and then you go home and yell at your spouse. It's deflected anger.

It is understandable, but it is certainly out of character for Sansa. She never yells at anybody, ever. She keeps her sadness inside her, cries to her pillow at night. She does not take her frustrations out on servants. It is already out of character inside the TV series, even more so if one compares the scene to the books.

I hope we see her interact with Sandor soon.

[Lyanna Stark]

Ummm.. I'd say until being with Littlefinger in the Vale, she's pretty damn bitchy. It's pretty bitchy to let your sister's little friend take the fall because you have a crush on a prince. And by ally, I don' mean in the way sense. I mean in the sense that she has no friends in KL (at this point), no one to talk to. So instead of seeing Shae as someone who is there to help her out, she yells at her, she totally freaks out.

It's so obvious that she was taking out all her frustrations and anger on this random woman come to see her. It's like when your boss at work yells at you, and then you go home and yell at your spouse. It's deflected anger.

No, she isn't. Link me one quote from ACOK or ASOS where Sansa is bitchy. One. I beg you.

And she doesn't yell at Shae in the books. Shae and Sansa are not in the same room until ASOS and Shae is originally Lolly's Stokeworth's maid.

May I ask, have you actually read the books? In that case you would know that Shae was Lolly's maid, not Sansa's and that Sansa at no point shouts at her. Ever.

As for your faulty assumption that "she makes her little sister's friend take the fall", Cersei had sent the Hound out to kill Mycah for laying a hand of the prince of the blood (Joffrey). What should Sansa have done to prevent it? Fought him? Something else? The notion that Sansa could have done something about that is ridiculous. And this, by the way, happened in AGOT. Not in ACOK.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Lyanna Stark

[Silverx2]

As for your faulty assumption that "she makes her little sister's friend take the fall", Cersei had sent the Hound out to kill Mycah for laying a hand of the prince of the blood (Joffrey). What should Sansa have done to prevent it? Fought him? Something else? The notion that Sansa could have done something about that is ridiculous. And this, by the way, happened in AGOT. Not in ACOK.

just off the top of my head, sansa could have told the truth. Joffrey stumbled upon arya and mycha playing with sticks, and decided to whip his sword out and threaten them for no reason other then he could.

Surely they wouldnt have killed mycha at that point.

[Rhaegar Stark]

Great episode. Best in the season, and dare I say it the best of the series. Well executed, excellent acting. My hats off to the cast and crew. As a huge fan of the books I was excited for this show and besides the ridiculous sex scenes in the first season I have not been disappointed. Sunday night has so many flawless shows on it truly is amazing.

[Rhaegar Stark]

Sorry to DP but kudos to Alfie Allen. He really delivered it this episode and the Iron Islands scenery is gorgeous to say the least.