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Did anyone else cringe when it was implied Tyrion would send Littlefinger to negotiate Jaime's release with Caitlyn stark. Not only is this part a complete departure from the books, but it will lead to Jaime's release WAY earlier. I'm not a purist, and I am actually really enjoying the segments with Renly, Loras, and Margaery, and I don't even mind that they removed the segment where Arya, Gendry, Lommy, and Hotpie escape and make it on their own for a few days. But throwing off the timing of what happens dramatically, and to top it all off doing so in a matter completely inconsistent with the books is just.... pointless.

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Did anyone else cringe when it was implied Tyrion would send Littlefinger to negotiate Jaime's release with Caitlyn stark. Not only is this part a complete departure from the books, but it will lead to Jaime's release WAY earlier. I'm not a purist, and I am actually really enjoying the segments with Renly, Loras, and Margaery, and I don't even mind that they removed the segment where Arya, Gendry, Lommy, and Hotpie escape and make it on their own for a few days. But throwing off the timing of what happens dramatically, and to top it all off doing so in a matter completely inconsistent with the books is just.... pointless.

Didn't really care for that, but I don't think it necessarily means that Jaime will be released much earlier. I doubt the show will actually have Littlefinger succeed in convincing Catelyn to release Jaime by next episode. It does feel like the writers are trying to insert Littlefinger into the show a lot more than in the books. He's been in every episode this season, and certainly has had more screentime than Varys, who in ACOK takes on a larger role than Littlefinger, where Littlefinger was bigger in AGOT.

Also, it seems like the show has already lost the chance for some of Littlefinger's best moments from ACOK, such as suggesting that Patchface was Shireen's real father in response to Stannis' letters. I guess this wasn't feasible for the show since neither Patchface nor Shireen are on it, but it was a great part in the book of showing what a sly weasel he is. I don't know how I feel about Littlefinger meeting up with Catelyn again, but I'll see how it plays out next episode.

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We've known for months they were moving a good portion of Jaime's ASoS arc into this season. For the record, though, episode summaries that have been released reveal that...

... it looks like Jaime gets turned loose in episode 7.

LINK

I would put $$$ on him losing his hand in episode 10...

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Does anybody think Summer looked much smaller than Ghost and Grey Wind? He looked about the size of a normal full grown wolf, when Grey Wind and Ghost were much bigger. It seems a little early to have the direwolves full grown, so hopefully they will even get a little bit bigger.

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Did anyone else cringe when it was implied Tyrion would send Littlefinger to negotiate Jaime's release with Caitlyn stark. Not only is this part a complete departure from the books, but it will lead to Jaime's release WAY earlier. I'm not a purist, and I am actually really enjoying the segments with Renly, Loras, and Margaery, and I don't even mind that they removed the segment where Arya, Gendry, Lommy, and Hotpie escape and make it on their own for a few days. But throwing off the timing of what happens dramatically, and to top it all off doing so in a matter completely inconsistent with the books is just.... pointless.

Not really, Littlefinger has to go to Bitterbridge at some point in the near future anyway, having him and Cat together provides an opportunity to present some of that back story now that Riverrun is missing

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And that's how people act in that society. You're not supposed to be chummy with the child of a baker, especially as a child yourself. For all you know, the boy could be dangerous. It's not bitchy, it's common sense. Let's not have double standards, either. Arya throws food at Sansa in front of the royal retinue and all her father's guests, and I imagine most people cheered.

What do you mean "take the fall?" The butcher's boy was dead already, and he was dead no matter who said what. Even Eddard Stark, of all people, points out that what Sansa did was the reasonable thing to do. Moreover, you're forgetting that she's a child in unfamiliar territory with unfamiliar people brought before the king and queen and all their armed force and asked whether or not she's going to call the prince a liar. Perhaps a lot of the fandom was unusually mature and far-thinking when they were 13. I certainly wasn't, and most people I knew at that age weren't either. And to Sansa's credit, she didn't throw Arya under the bus. She refused to. Instead, she said that she couldn't recall. She avoided taking sides and thereby avoided escalating the conflict. And what reward does she get? The scorn of the fandom and a dead direwolf.

As for Shae being her friend, please. I had a pretty rough day today, I'm sure the cashier who sold me my groceries is my friend. And I'm sure if he stood there vacantly, looking at my groceries and wondering whether the price scanner goes in my mouth or goes in my bag, I ought to have smiled and said "there there now, you're supposed to scan the UPC labels." And if I'm ever interviewed for a job, I'll be sure to go there with a blank resume and say "what experience? I was told that you'd tell me how to do my job!"

After all the nonsense Sansa has to go through, surrounded by thugs and murderers all day who beat her if she goes a moment off script, dealing with an utterly incompetent fake maid (who in all likelihood could be a spy) is asking way too much. Bitchy? She was on the verge of tears! Look at her face during the dinner scene and the Shae scene; she's not being spiteful, she's in pain and she's frightened.

And if she had befriended Shae and chatted and gossiped with her as if nothing were wrong, I'd wonder if her screws were loose.

She's not bitchy, she's a scared teenage girl.

The dinner scene at Cersei's table was well done and sad to watch - Sansa barely touching her food, stricken with sorrow after Cersei and her younger children discuss the possible death of Sansa's brother, needled by Cersei into faking some anticipation of her own supposed wedding to Joffrey. Sansa looked crushed when she returned to her chambers, as if she was wondering how she was going to go on. And when Shae came in, Sansa looked scared - I think her first reaction might have been to fear that Shae was an assassin. Which wouldn't surprise me; since Shae did not look like a maid. A lady's maid, especially a maid to a girl as highborn as Sansa, hostage or not (still the official betrothed of King Joffrey) does not arrive for work dressed like a performer in a street fair or a trainee in one of Littlefinger's establishment - Shae was wearing too many bangles/bracelets and showing too much skin, not to mention attitude. If I were Sansa, I'd be sure that Shae was there to spy on me - she certainly wasn't going to be much help.

Small quibble - in the books, Sansa's maids are never referred to as 'handmaidens'; nor is Shae referred to as a 'handmaiden' when she serves Lollys Stokeworth, at least not that I can remember. GRRM calls them 'maids'.

Sansa looked quite pretty in this episode, despite her distress; I think it was because her hair was not pulled back from her forehead so sharply. And she was quite a bit taller and broader of shoulder (and chest) than Shae; making an interesting visual contrast between the two.

Edited by Raksha the Demon

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Episode 3 brought us right back to the where we should be based on the books.

[...]

HBO brilliantly condensed this part of the plot down to fit into the timeline that they have to use, being a 10 episode season.

Agreed. I dislike unnecessary invented scenes as much as anyone, and dreaded seeing the cliffhanger, but now that it's past I am sanguine about it.

Really, renaming Cleos Frey to Alton Lannister (as if one line explaining how a "Frey" could be on the Lannisters' side would be so impossible to fit in) annoys me more; I think viewers, who have already seen that the Frey family is gigantic, can be trusted a little more than they were in that particular case.

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... it looks like Jaime gets turned loose in episode 7.

LINK

I would put $$$ on him losing his hand in episode 10...

No.

"Meeting the relative" = Alton Lannister/Cleos Frey's return to Robb's camp to report on the Lannisters' refusal to bargain. In the book we are later told that Lannister men in Alton/Cleos' party attempted to break Jaime out and almost succeeded; we are going to see this in the specified episode, no doubt with Jaime doing a lot of cool swordplay before recapture.

As for Jaime's hand, it won't occur this season. Catelyn releasing him with Brienne and Alton/Cleos and their sailing off makes a great way to end that particular storyline this season. Jaime and Brienne have to have other adventures together--notably his rescuing her from the bear (and there's no way the show will avoid depicting that)--before the hand is chopped.

Edited by TMWNN

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And she was quite a bit taller and broader of shoulder (and chest) than Shae;

does anyone know how tall Sophie Turner actually is? She is literally towering over quite a few other female characters at "thirteen". looks like she is at least six foot. Even Sandor does nor make her appear small.

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shes got giants blood in her.

I really hope they dont release jamie without the attempted breakout first, the ripple effect from that change would be massive.

Jamie kills karstarks, Karstarks try and get revenge, Robb executes rickard, karstarks abandon the starks, etc

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We've known for months they were moving a good portion of Jaime's ASoS arc into this season. For the record, though, episode summaries that have been released reveal that...

... it looks like Jaime gets turned loose in episode 7.

LINK

I would put $$$ on him losing his hand in episode 10...

I've got to say I think episode 7 is more likely to be

... Jaime attempting and failing to escape, killing some people in the meantime. And will happily take that bet about losing his hand in episode 10. I will throw a proper hissy fit if they don't show Jaime's escape (needed to actually demonstrate that he is a dangerous swordsman, otherwise losing his hand has no poignancy and Brienne beating him just looks like he sucks not that she is good) and if they chuck Jaime vs Brienne in before actually developing their relationship and character and establishing Brienne in particular. Cutting off Jaime's hand this early might be enough to put me off the show for ever, and I'll put money on D and D not wanting to ruin that character arc that much

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No.

"Meeting the relative" = Alton Lannister/Cleos Frey's return to Robb's camp to report on the Lannisters' refusal to bargain. In the book we are later told that Lannister men in Alton/Cleos' party attempted to break Jaime out and almost succeeded; we are going to see this in the specified episode, no doubt with Jaime doing a lot of cool swordplay before recapture.

As for Jaime's hand, it won't occur this season. Catelyn releasing him with Brienne and Alton/Cleos and their sailing off makes a great way to end that particular storyline this season. Jaime and Brienne have to have other adventures together--notably his rescuing her from the bear (and there's no way the show will avoid depicting that)--before the hand is chopped. That happens after he gets his hand chopped off though

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i think they're putting a lot of emphasis on shae so tyrion's rampage makes an even bigger/more dramatic impact.
I'm interested to see where they go with Shae over the next couple seasons. Like everyone else, I'm not a fan of the character currently, as I think her attitude and chemistry with Tyrion don't really work with where their story goes in the books; but hey, I'll wait and see.

I wonder if TV Tyrion will ever finish the Tysha story. What will Shea think about that?

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Theon has to "kill" the boys and word has to reach Cat before she releases Jamie. She has to be really emotionally compromised to let Jamie go without an agreement from KL.

(null)

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I've got to say I think episode 7 is more likely to be

... Jaime attempting and failing to escape, killing some people in the meantime. And will happily take that bet about losing his hand in episode 10. I will throw a proper hissy fit if they don't show Jaime's escape (needed to actually demonstrate that he is a dangerous swordsman, otherwise losing his hand has no poignancy and Brienne beating him just looks like he sucks not that she is good) and if they chuck Jaime vs Brienne in before actually developing their relationship and character and establishing Brienne in particular. Cutting off Jaime's hand this early might be enough to put me off the show for ever, and I'll put money on D and D not wanting to ruin that character arc that much

If you don't think they've spent enough time establishing him as one of the pre-eminent swordsman in Westeros, I think you're forgetting the entirety of season 1.

If we see...

his escape attempt...

... at all, it'll be earlier than episode 7. And, I doubt we'll be seeing it, because...

... there was no mention whatsoever of Tyrion's plan for any such escape attempt when Alton (nee Cleos) was in KL.

The producers made it clear months ago in interviews that a significant portion of Jaime's arc from ASoS will be taking place in the latter half of this season.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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No.

"Meeting the relative" = Alton Lannister/Cleos Frey's return to Robb's camp to report on the Lannisters' refusal to bargain. In the book we are later told that Lannister men in Alton/Cleos' party attempted to break Jaime out and almost succeeded; we are going to see this in the specified episode, no doubt with Jaime doing a lot of cool swordplay before recapture.

As for Jaime's hand, it won't occur this season. Catelyn releasing him with Brienne and Alton/Cleos and their sailing off makes a great way to end that particular storyline this season. Jaime and Brienne have to have other adventures together--notably his rescuing her from the bear (and there's no way the show will avoid depicting that)--before the hand is chopped.

You need to check your timeline.

He saves her from the bear *AFTER* losing his hand, not *BEFORE*. He's being escorted home to KL by Bolton's men when he goes back for her. By that time, he's been in Harrenhal getting his stump maestered by Qyburn for quite a while.

LINK Ending with the hand being chopped-off is a perfect cliffhanger. Do you really think they're gonna waste that on episode 2 or 3 of next season? Not likely.

As I said above, D&D have been quoted as saying a goodly portion of Jaime's character arc from book 3 will be happening this season.

It's not just gonna end with the boat chase. They made it pretty clear it was gonna be a good part of his story being moved forward; otherwise, he'd be doing nothing all season. Ending it where I suggested would be about a third of his ASoS arc moved forward. In fact, I'll bet the boat chase gets cut completely, shortened, and/or turned into a horse chase instead as a means of saving $$$.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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It's not just gonna end with the boat chase. They made it pretty clear it was gonna be a good part of his story being moved forward; otherwise, he'd be doing nothing all season. Ending it where I suggested would be about a third of his ASoS arc moved forward. In fact, I'll bet the boat chase gets cut completely, shortened, and/or turned into a horse chase instead as a means of saving $$$.

I don't think the boat part is cut. One of the actors (Nikolaj or Gwendoline) mentioned a canoeing scene...

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Theon has to "kill" the boys and word has to reach Cat before she releases Jamie. She has to be really emotionally compromised to let Jamie go without an agreement from KL.

(null)

Theon takes Winterfell is episode 6 and is searching for the missing boys/killing the miller's sons in episode 7.

LINK Jaime will be freed either at the end of episode 7 or in episode 8

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I don't think the boat part is cut. One of the actors (Nikolaj or Gwendoline) mentioned a canoeing scene...

Good. Maybe they'll just say Robb's army was camped on the riverbank before he was freed then. That works. A canoe is a departure, though; in the book, it was a skiff or something with a sail.

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