[Book Spoilers] Ep 203 Discussion

[Mya Stone]

And the scene between Sansa and Shae? I just didn't freakin' get that at all. Also another awkwardly written scene. Sansa was just never a brat in the book. Why do they make her so bratty in the show???

My take on that is this: the previous scene had just shown Sansa to have absolutely zero control (at dinner with Cersei). The second she is given a new "hand maiden" she exerts her control and power (and yes, brattiness, she is just a kid) over her. I liked the juxtaposition.

[teemo]

She's quite sociopathic, even in her POV chapters.

She could have all of the above. I really think she has BPD, however.

[milquetoast]

That's one artists vision....She's described in the book as being tall, athletic, with a wicked grin. The only thing that Theon states is unattractive is taht her nose is a little big. Other wise she's supposed to be good looking....she kind of looks frumpy like all the Greyjoys do in the show...which isn't how they are described in the book.

I always pictured her like this:

Edited April 16, 2012 by milquetoast

[JayDubya]

I was uncomfortable with the Renly/Loras scene during the kissing part, but that's my personal hangup, not an issue with the show. The fight after was fun to watch.

A lot of people didn't seem to like the Renly/Margaery scene, but I loved it. The way they presented Margaery was brilliant - she's immediately presented as a player in the Game - someone who knows when to lie, knows when to tell the truth, and understands the practical compromises and deals one makes for power.

I never really cared for her in the books, but I believe that this is GRRM telegraphing her importance - she is a serious piece on the board, not an ornamental diversion. Lurking unnoticed this whole time! The Margaery Tyrell in S2E03 is the kind of woman who would help plan and execute the Purple Wedding. Awesome!

I also loved the scene with Tyrion and the whore (was that Ros?) and the second gold piece. Beautiful. Brienne is a giant next to Catelyn.

The only flat notes in the episode for me werethe way they used Lommy for Gendry - that felt forced. And Shae/Sansa felt pretty forced as well.

Next week should be awesome, and the week after (presuming Renly meets his shadow) should be great as well.

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Still disappointed with Asha. I said I would give her another chance, but there was just no spunk or fire at all. I think she needs to smirk and smile a bit more. She says taunting things, but her expressions and attitude don't back them up. Oh, and ASHA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HOT. GET OVER IT. And who cares is Theon was attracted to her? Theon would fuck anything with a pulse, to put it bluntly.

I don't understand why people say she isn't supposed to be attractive. The description Theon gives is that she's attractive, Victorian thinks she's attractive, and Tristan does also. Of course this wouldn't matter if Gemma Whelan would actually act like Asha/Yara had a personality. She's so bland.

And the scene between Sansa and Shae? I just didn't freakin' get that at all. Also another awkwardly written scene. Sansa was just never a brat in the book. Why do they make her so bratty in the show???

Agreed. I really didn't understand why there was that long of a scene. Nothing happened.

Did Balon say he planned on taking Winterfell? If so, that doesn't make any sense. He never had any desire to overtake Winterfell. That was Theon's independent idea that just highlighted his treachery to both of his "families." Don't really like that, if I heard Balon correctly.

No he said he idn't care if Winterfell wasn't taken after 7 months. Winterfell was not his priority.

Loved Hodor's greeting in Bran's wolf dream. And the wolf dream itself, too. Summer looks awesome.

The Direwolves have looked fantastic this season. THe wolf dreams have been great IMO.

[redraike]

And honestly, two men kissing is a good change from the frequent two prostitutes rehearsing...

but two prostitutes rehearsing never gets old and two men kissing is just kinda "why bother?"

[teemo]

My take on that is this: the previous scene had just shown Sansa to have absolutely zero control (at dinner with Cersei). The second she is given a new "hand maiden" she exerts her control and power (and yes, brattiness, she is just a kid) over her. I liked the juxtaposition.

True. It helped show her inner strength, which she definitely does have. It's just weird for me to see, since only very rarely did Sansa act un-ladylike in the books. But it is her handmaiden, and doesn't she think most of them are Cersei's spies? So yeah, I can see that.

[redraike]

HBO-Shae is uninteresting because book-Shae is uninteresting. The writers would have done well to have eliminated her completely from the story, but once they decided to keep her they had no choice but to deal with her.

Shae is all about Tyrion and his relationship with Jaime. She needs to be there.

[7V3N]

I should also add that the facial expressions of Asha Yara were matching the character, but I still don't think she is hard enough. I want to see her toss some axes and speak with some authority. Theon has been excellent.

[teemo]

but two prostitutes rehearsing never gets old and two men kissing is just kinda "why bother?"

and why is two men kissing who are in love and both a very important part of the books a "why bother?" compared to unimportant characters who are clearly in a scene just for the gratuitous sex? Yes, yes, and it was to show some of LF's true personality as well.

[teemo]

Did Theon ever go on a "YOU GAVE ME AWAY!!!!" rant?? I really don't remember that.

[jurble]

The guy playing Loras still has the physique of a 12 year-old, wtf. How am I supposed to believe this is one of the strongest knights in the kingdom, damn it?

[Gloria]

I love the actress who is portraying Margaery; she really has her personality down. Same for TV Varys (spot on!). I am not a huge fan of TV Catelyn (I don't find her as sympathetic as I did book Catelyn). I agree with the Yara\Asha haters (she's just not what i pictured, and she has so far displayed none of the fire or charisma of book Asha. I also think she's not as pretty as I had imagined). But I don't mind TV Shae; she's pretty much how I imagined her to be, a self-centered, greedy, back-stabby whore. I can't wait until she gets hers. :)

Love TV Tommen and Myrcella though.

I'm a teeny bit annoyed that TV Theon is being portrayed as so sympathetic at this point. Kind of kills the impact of what happens to him later.

[Trebla]

The guy playing Loras still has the physique of a 12 year-old, wtf. How am I supposed to believe this is one of the strongest knights in the kingdom, damn it?

No. One of the finest jousters in Westeros. Yes.

He was described by Ned as slender as a reed.

[teemo]

HBO-Shae is uninteresting because book-Shae is uninteresting. The writers would have done well to have eliminated her completely from the story, but once they decided to keep her they had no choice but to deal with her.

I thought that her scene with Sansa was touching. Why? Because the scene was not about Shae but about Sansa. This poor young woman is totally traumatized. She is suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Sansa needs a friend who is not Lannister. Shae represents a future, the possibility of sanity. A thin reed, indeed, but still a reed. Give the HBO writers credit here.

Sansa does not have Stockholm Syndrome. She feels no love or true loyalty to her captors. She sure pretends too, however. She has too.

But if Shae didn't exist, Tyrion couldn't kill her :P

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

I always pictured her like this:

Yeah same here except with a little shorter hair. I kind of thought the Ironborn would have a little bit of "pirate" about them mixed with Viking.

I just don't get the complaints about the Renly/Loras scene. It establishes the personalities and motivations of three characters. I mean it was way better than every other sex scene in the series besides the Jaime/Cersei scene because that actually has some bearing.

[Sons of Craster]

Yes Theon RANT was awesome IMO but was it in the book?

[Strider]

Is it wrong of me to to want every episode to be word for word from the book?

Yes! Anyone who is expecting a word for word adaptation is doomed to disappointment.

Folks here need to experience and judge the HBO series on its own terms. Forget the f*****g books and enjoy, or not enjoy, the series as it has been given us. This second series has many flaws (though I think tonight's episode was excellent), but these flaws cannot be identified and properly assessed until we stop comparing the series to the books. The writers have made changes, both to characters and narrative, and will continue to make changes. That they do so is absolutely essential.

Tonight's episode has renewed my enthusiasm for the show. It was really well done.

[redraike]

and why is two men kissing who are in love and both a very important part of the books a "why bother?" compared to unimportant characters who are clearly in a scene just for the gratuitous sex? Yes, yes, and it was to show some of LF's true personality as well.

No no, not as in storyline. I totally get that. And whether they are "very important" or not is kind of arguable.

Simply put, I just can't wrap my head around why two men would be attracted to each other. Men are at best unattractive to begin with. Like...George Clooney or this Loras fellow. So Not Hot. So why bother?

[Jack's Smirking Revenge]

Did Theon ever go on a "YOU GAVE ME AWAY!!!!" rant?? I really don't remember that.

No. I actually didn't like that scene as much as others. It kind of felt heavy handed...like "this is Theon's motivation for betraying Robb". Maybe I'll like it better when I watch it again.