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And where most fans judge a new character on his/her smarts/strengths/ability to play the Game of Thrones, you see... tiddies. And whether they're big enough, or nice enough. I say again... jesus christ... :ack:

There are pages of people whining because Asha doesn't fit into their definition of attractive. This is hardly surprising.

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Great. Things i liked

Tyrion and his manipulatrions

Theon and his guilt and transformation

Renly/Margery/Loras/Brienne- Thought it was pronounced BRI-EEN

And a nice bit of action at the end

it is very surreal how quickly everything is happening. It the books it felt like ages

Edited by Hear Us Roar

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Stuff like this, and the scene with Sansa/Shae, and with Lommy as Gendry, people who have read the book won't like them quite as much (although I did love the first two), but they are necessary, or at least important, to the viewers who haven't read the books, which i imagine is quite a few people. We have Sansa's POVs and we know she feels terrified, but the audience doesnt.

We know, especially after the fifth book, how Theon feels, but the audience doesn't. I especially liked how they made it seem like a difficult decision in the show, because in the book, it just kind of jumps without us seeing the decision-making process.

I hope we can get some kind of scene where see how truly terrified Sansa is. Dontos?

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About Renly: I don't think he was all that well developed in the book, and is he getting similar treatment in the show. His character is more of a vehicle for the real heir to the throne (and his red headed lady friend) to show off what he can do. I had very little invested in Renly in the books, and non-readers have very little invested in his character in the show.

Otherwise, I'm glad they got that Cat line in about "playing war." It's a little different in ACOK, but they got still the point across.

I also loved how they started the show from Summer/Bran's point of view.

I actually think they're doing a much better job in the show developing Renly.

Also, based on next weeks scenes, it looks like Davos is taking Melisandre somewhere (presumably to have her "child")

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they do that to take over a castle, and NOT to kill Renly. (That scene came well after Renly's death, no?) So has Renly gotten a reprieve from dying just yet, and they'll leave that for later? Or are they just combining the two scenes to take away the ambiguity of how Renly dies?

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I have a feeling that Renly will die at the end of the next episode...maybe not, and hope not though. Love the relationship between the three of them. But maybe we'll be let into the pain of Loras afterwards.

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Way to much homoism. it's unattractive and not a very important part of the show.

Meaning one scene in the entire episode? Someone has a complex...

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Renly/Margery/Loras/Brienne- Thought it was pronounced BRI-EEN

To pick up on a pronunciation thing...I was disconcerted by how Margaery pronounced her family's last name - something like "Tirrel". I've always pronounced it "Tie-Rell" or to that effect.

That's it for now, maybe I'll check back in later if there's more actual discussion of the episode and less trolling back and forth.

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Meaning one scene in the entire episode? Someone has a complex...

Not to mention the first male kiss in the entire series.

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I honestly believe this was the best episode of the season. And with no Tywin, Stannis or Jaime, that must be high praise coming from me.

What was excellent:

The Voice of Theon Greyjoy: As others have discussed, the books wrote a part of Theon; the novels make the good arguer in all of us beg Theon to just SAY what is so OBVIOUS- “Lord Father, why do you hate me do much for being a hostage to Eddard Stark when I was a hostage to pay for your … buffoonery?!?!?” We go through a whole book with the READER asking that open and obvious question; one that never leaves Theon’s lips.

And then tonight it all came rushing out in a torrent! Theon Greyjoy finally at long last, speaks. Not the pissy half-measures as it was in the books, but that honest and true message- “Why do you hate me for being a reminder of your mistake?” Finally, at long last Theon sounds like a person who can think and feel straight.

And I loved that in the middle of that tirade, that CLOSE shot of Balon Greyjoy. And in that FUCKING actor was pure brilliance- he almost…. Just almost … looks like he empathizes with Theon. As if he’s about to … be an honest man and not a shitty, shitty (and I cannot stress this enough s-h-i-t-t-y) Lord. That may have been the shot of the series staring into the deep darkness of Balon Greyjoy’s pain-wracked eyes.

Tyrion Lannister. 1,2,3: Its my favorite chapter in the CoK. The scene where Tyrion plans the lies and gets three men to dance to his tune- LF, Varys and Pyrcell each listens and wines and dines. That Tyrion can masterfully orchestrate them to reveal what he wants to hear. And we see the greatness of the Game of Thrones and how some are born to play it and others … others are Ned Stark.

The Queen in the South, her Brother and Their Husband: I really don’t know what others are complaining about but the Renly scenes are absolutely fantastic because they are the Maergery Tyrell scenes. Which is why they shine. While Renly tries to play King and Loras tries to get him to play lover, the Queen is not at all fooled. Nope. No. No, she wants an heir. She wants a chance to roll the dice in the Game of Thrones. And the only way to do that is through the graces of Renly Baratheon. And if that takes Loras to jump in to start or do them both or to have him take her from behind so he can pretend its Loras, she is going to do all that. She is NOBODY’S FOOL! She is in it to win it. And so she tells Renly flat out. Whatever it takes.

Stannis thinks the same way…

(Honorable Mention: Thank you for not keeping the lame joke that it was a “Rainbow Guard.” Yes, we get it- he’s gay. No need to beat us over the head with it)

The Humanity of Maester Luwin: My Luwin- the one from the books – was older in my mind; he was more wizen than grandfatherly. And he pales in comparison to what Donald Sumpter is doing. He’s Luwin. This man is shining through the humanity, decency and kindness of this person. Not this Maester, but this person.

Sansa, Cersei and Tommen: Just loved that scene. Just loved that it shows how jaded Sansa is becoming, how vile Cersei is and how … decent Tommen it.

Yoren: Well done all around.

What I am Not Sold On:

Yara or Whatever The Show Named Her: Somebody else said it and it bares repeating: this “Theon’s Sister” possesses none of the charisma and polish of the book’s character. Now, part of that HAS to be that you have to cut SOMETHING. This was Theon’s episode, not Yara’s. Hence, she has to be muzzled. But … how about a little something? And she looks so cowed he whole time.

William: So, Arya just couldn’t come up with the prayer herself? She needed somebody to give her the idea? Meh….

What I Think is Just Laughably Bad:

IMSHAETHEFUNNYWHORE: (sticks fingers in ears)”What? Is She still talking? I’m sorry but when she’s on the screen, I stick my fingers in my ears and start singing to myself because she’s literally harmful to my mental health. LALALALALA… I’m not listening to her!!!! (looks up) Oh thank God she’s gone, whew! Only like 4 minutes of wasted time. … Oh good a scene with Sansa; a character that does not make me what to envision a universe that does not so closely resemble Hell. AH AH AH!! She’s BACK! Fuck! They snuck her in! (Sticks fingers in ears). Why is she still here!”

Couldn’t they have just sent this message by having Sansa open the door and having Shea standing there and introducing herself? Why the… useless scene afterwards? And generally I just don't like Shea.

Lord Commander Mormont and the Dumbest Steward in the Realm: So, Jon turns to Mormont and says, “He sends the boys to the White Walkers.” And then he looks at Mormont, has a realization (light dawns on marble head) and says “You knew!!!” All filled with righteous indignation. And Mormont looks at Jon (and the actor is game; he’s trying to show that he’s rueful about what he knows and why its necessary) but in a brief flash I half expected Mormont to say:

“Jon, for fuck’s sake- he lives in the middle of nowhere with a house filled with daughters who he fucks and gets pregnant who then give him more daughters! Do you think I just thought, “Guess he’s due for a son one of these days?” You figured it out all on your own? No shit Sherlock- I figured out that he’s doing something to the boys. I'm so happy you're here!”

And then I would have loved it had he said, “Oh, wait that’s right… you grew up in Winterfell… my bad…”

Seriously- who COULDN’T have figured that one out? Did we need ANY of that?

Overall, best episode of the seasons- hitting its stride big time.

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To pick up on a pronunciation thing...I was disconcerted by how Margaery pronounced her family's last name - something like "Tirrel". I've always pronounced it "Tie-Rell" or to that effect.

That's it for now, maybe I'll check back in later if there's more actual discussion of the episode and less trolling back and forth.

yeah loras did the same.

when he said "you should be seeing to another Ti-rell tonight"

Edited by Hear Us Roar

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I actually think they're doing a much better job in the show developing Renly.

I do, too. I especially loved the little beat, during his stroll with Cat, where he stopped -- what looked like -- the smallfolkman, and asked how he was doing. It lent itself well to the idea that Renly loves his people, and, in turn, they see this and love him back.

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Excellent episode, nicely done with Loomy, it had a big impact, just as it should. Tyrion's manipulation was good... not perfect, I thought it was a bit silly the way he said: "The queen must not know!!" Why?? anyone with a brain would have thought it suspicios.... especially Varys. If he gave a reason... I mean, like in the books, like in the show, her reaction to parting with her child, it would have been much better IMO.

Great Theon scenes, I liked that they didn't show anything about Dany, she has little stuff in this book, glad they don't invent new stuff. Not so nice that they didn't show anything about Robb, he has a war, he has battles in ACOK....

I loved Brienne :), she walks so funny :), and OMG she is twice as tall as Cat.

Anyway, an episode without dragons or direwolves, I guess, non-reader audience will be disappointed :devil:

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Sansa does not have Stockholm Syndrome. She feels no love or true loyalty to her captors. She sure pretends too, however. She has too.

Exactly. Am I the only one who noticed her eyes glistening as she tried to hold-up her facade at the dinner table? And her using the goblet to cover when she almost lost it at mention of Joffrey killing Robb? That was actually very good acting.

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Loved the Sansa/Shae scene and I don't think Sansa was being bratty or snobby at all. She was making a point.

"I shouldn't have to tell you to do things, you should just do them."

Perfect words by Sansa to illustrate what she's forced to do and say as a captive in King's Landing. Know your role. And I loved the vulnerability and sorrow Sansa showed in that scene. The tears in her eyes, the sadness looking into the mirror. Wow.

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Exactly. Am I the only one who noticed her eyes glistening as she tried to hold-up her facade at the dinner table? And her using the goblet to cover when she almost lost it at mention of Joffrey killing Robb? That was actually very good acting.

I hope not, cause to me it was clearly obvious. I liked how Tommen blatantly came off as very likable in what to non-readers was the first time they really got to know the kid a little.

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Did Balon say he planned on taking Winterfell? If so, that doesn't make any sense. He never had any desire to overtake Winterfell. That was Theon's independent idea that just highlighted his treachery to both of his "families." Don't really like that, if I heard Balon correctly.

Well, I think it can be assumed Balon was going to take Winterfell. It was just a matter of when. As far as we know, he only plans on Theon fighting on the Stony Shore. It's Theon who takes the iniative and takes Winterfell, a lot quicker than his father who is expecting a year or two holdout. So I think it works.

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[MOD]

Folks, please lay off the homophobic stuff and the personal attacks. Both are outside the rules of forum.

Let's keep it on topic please.

[/MOD]

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