[Book Spoilers] Ep 203 Discussion

[boojam]

Anyway most of the people that i know are watching the show but haven't read the books.They are all waiting to see the dragon's in action.They ask me when this is going to happen.Shall i tell them the truth?

Well the way things are going kinda slow with Dany, actually they did in the book too...

Looks as if next episode will feature more of her, and maybe, can't tell episode 6, why at this late date we don't know the name of episode 10.

The dragons do a lot of little dragon things that are quite charming in the book, I would think the CGI guys would have a ball with that.

Then Dany and Drogon have quite a mysterious adventure ending with a Drogon smokeout (BBQ? Flamewar?) in Qarth, that's about the only dust up for Dany in CoK, but it's a good one.

Edited April 17, 2012 by boojam

[tearloch]

Oh and when Theon takes Winterfell and kills the Miller's kids without Ramsay to tell him to, he is not going to be seen as a protagonist. They are just actually showing the character as he was with the bits the book skipped over until later. Cersei has plenty of stuff on the cards to make her hated too. I didn't like her not killing the Bastards but right now Joff is a damned good villain. The others will get their turn

I don't think the Winterfell story will get that far this season. Based on show titles, Theon will take Winterfell in episode 8. Reek was not with him then. He came in later. If my memory is correct, he comes in while the Winterfell guard is out trying to deal with Ramsay and the old woman he forcefully wed....Which I hope is early in season 3.

[SerArthurHeath]

If in future episodes they play up a Cersei's informants then I'll retract that complaint, but to me at the moment it looks more like they're emphasising that Sansa is still a highborn lady and is very used to being waited on hand and foot. I can't think of any significant plot advance that happens as a result of Cersei's informers, the only one that springs to mind is that Tyrion provides it as a reason to employ Shae - which has already happened.

It's not nearly as obvious as people here might have you think, basically: Catelyn observes that he spends more time talking to Loras than Margaery over dinner, he asks Loras to 'stay and pray' with him, and Loras is particularly devastated when he's killed.

And other characters take the piss a lot (Cersei says Loras isn't a man, Oberyn calls Loras Renly's little flower, Jaime implies that Renly was having anal sex with Loras. Stannis and Cressen both make hints about Renly's sexuality too, as do people talking about Loras joining the KG and even Loras' brother to Sansa)

[tearloch]

On Sansa / Shae: I get the dislike for Shae. I also get Sansa's reaction to her. In her mind, Shae is just another spy for the queen. I think the actress playing Shae is annoying, but overall I like the way HBO is portraying her. She was sympathetic in the books, but alwasy through Tyrion's POV, up until he finds her in the sack with someone else. HBO is not limited to the POV views of characters, and I feel that HBO is capturing the true Shae. True, it will reduce the agony of her betrayal for the viewers, but there will be plenty of jaw droppers to come. Too many might turn off some viewers.

On the Reeds: I was very disappointed in the Reeds not being in season 2. I do think they will have to add them very early in season 3. Since it appears that Theon takes Winterfell in episode 8 this season, then maybe the Reeds are on their way to Winterfell, see the sack happen, and just wait in the woods, happening onto Hodor, Bran, Rickon, and Osha as they escape. I think the decision not to cast the Reeds in season 2 was all about $$. Season 2 will get rid of some more main characters, so that frees up budget space for the Reeds. 1 Renly = 2 Reeds. That sounds like a bargain to me.

[Slaytanic213]

I can't recall when and exactly why Craster did tell the Watch to get out of his keep; obviously it wasn't because Jon followed him into the woods to give a male baby to an Other.

Craster does kick the Watch out, but not until book 3 that I recall. He does tell them that they have to leave at dawn because he can't feed them all or something to that effect.

In the book, Mormont was well aware of what Craster did with his sons; it just wasn't his business.

The scenes with Theon screaming @ Balon about giving him away was really well done. I would think that Theon would naturally be bitter with his father for that.

The scene with Tyrion and Varys was brilliant too and I think they picked the right actors for these parts. They both nail it every time.

I also liked how they physically show how Sansa's "captivity" has changed her.

I definitely enjoyed this episode more than the first 2. I understand that they can't keep the subtleties (sp??) of the POV's from the book the same. It doesn't work on screen and people will miss the inuendos.

[Seed]

3 posts in a row.....apologies, but Sir Loras just said that Margery was a "virgin officially," implying she may not be (bro sis incest with her bisexual brother?). It could also just be a line included for viewers since the actress playing her is in her early twenties.

However, I don't think that bodes well for her and her impending trial with the Faith, presumably at the beginning of Winds of Winter. I do believe that her trial will not go the way we are supposed to expect it will, and her execution will set off a firestorm of violence from the Tyrells (finally).

I agree with this 100%. I picked up on that, and being the only guy in the room who'd read the entire series, I was the only guy to catch that sly line.

[Golden Brown]

I find it funny that they introduced Renly in the third episode. There was quite some talk about him and the power he has in the first two episodes. Now that he finally made an appearance, Stannis will land at Storm`s End in the next episode and judging by the preview for episode 4, we will be seeing shadowbabies. And we all know what that means... I am sure that the showmakers want to make Renly`s death something like Ned Stark`s death (not such a huge surprise of course) and I think that two episodes won`t be enough to make us sympatise with him and his death. And isn`t that why they probably changed him so much from the book? There he was more charismatic, but a shallow character. Robert reborn. And when he died, I was surprised, but I didn`t feel sorry for Renly. Here, is a much more "stereotypical" gay but a much more complex charater. And I think he is more likable than in the books. I can more easily identify with him. That probably makes me one of the few that actually like show Renly, I guess.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Golden Brown

[Mulled Wino]

I don't think the Winterfell story will get that far this season. Based on show titles, Theon will take Winterfell in episode 8. Reek was not with him then. He came in later. If my memory is correct, he comes in while the Winterfell guard is out trying to deal with Ramsay and the old woman he forcefully wed....Which I hope is early in season 3.

Reek was already there. The ironmen found him in the dungeons. He was part of the scene where Osha turned coat and Mikken got killed

[Mulled Wino]

Craster does kick the Watch out, but not until book 3 that I recall. He does tell them that they have to leave at dawn because he can't feed them all or something to that effect.

In the book, Mormont was well aware of what Craster did with his sons; it just wasn't his business.

The scenes with Theon screaming @ Balon about giving him away was really well done. I would think that Theon would naturally be bitter with his father for that.

The scene with Tyrion and Varys was brilliant too and I think they picked the right actors for these parts. They both nail it every time.

I also liked how they physically show how Sansa's "captivity" has changed her.

I definitely enjoyed this episode more than the first 2. I understand that they can't keep the subtleties (sp??) of the POV's from the book the same. It doesn't work on screen and people will miss the inuendos.

In CoK he tells them they can stay for one night on their way from the beginning if I'm not mistaken.

In SoS, he kicks them out on the way back after they are massacred by the others and Sam kills the WW,

[therustman]

I find it incredible at the reaction to Loras/Renly, it was one of the most purposeful sex (or in this case non-sex) scenes in the series as they have a genuine caring relationship which is rare amoung westeros nobility. I feel for ppl who cant watch 2 ppl enjoying a moment of intimacy in a TV show. Some of you need to address your own sexuality.

Loved both Brienne and Margerey

I notice Loras mentioned 'Brienne the beauty'

Yoren you are one BAMF and the little extra background was poignent

Just wish Theon had been drowned and the Damphair was introduced.

[Isabella Stark]

Do we know for a fact that they haven't cast Ramsay? Or are they just keeping the casting under wraps so the audience doesn't guess that Reek turns out to be Ramsay in disguise.

I'm really hoping for option B on this one because how else will Theon end up in the Dreadfort?

This has been my theory. They can't really announce they've cast Ramsey, because then when "Reek" shows up, people will recognize him as Ramsey. And accouncing they've cast "Reek" signals that he's important somehow. This particular plot line really depends on a seemingly unimportant person turning out to be someone quite important. I think the audience needs to be fooled along with Theon.

They could be saving the Ramsey reveal for season 3, and just handle Reek/ Ramsey like they did Jagen H'gar in the last episode of last season- an extra in disguise whose place can be taken over by whatever actor they hire next season. However, given the plot titles and summaries (Ep 7- "Theon goes hunting;" Ep 8 is titled "The Prince of Winterfall") it sounds like some very Reek centered stuff is happening this season.

Anyway, I really hope they have Reek/ Ramsey around this season, because I found that whole storyline so engrossing.

I think this switched identity thing is going to be really hard to pull off. Consider Arstan Whitebeard, whom we should be seeing later on this series. It’s easy for him to fool Dany, but the audience? Good luck with that one.

I don't think this storyline requires the audience to be surprised along with Dany. In fact, it might be more interesting if the audience recognizes "Arstan." The unsullied will be wondering what he's doing there.....

[SerArthurHeath]

^ I think they will make it obvious it is Barristan. Adds tension

[Aegnor]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I don't think we've seen Shaga at all this season. I'm thinking the actor is no longer with the show. The only names hill tribe person we've seen in season 2 is Timmit son of Timmit.

[oierem]

I don't think the Winterfell story will get that far this season. Based on show titles, Theon will take Winterfell in episode 8. Reek was not with him then. He came in later. If my memory is correct, he comes in while the Winterfell guard is out trying to deal with Ramsay and the old woman he forcefully wed....Which I hope is early in season 3.

Nope, Winterfell will be taken in episode 6, Theon will hunt for the Star children in 7, yara will visit him in 8, and the sack of winterfel will be in episode 10.

Otherwise, what will Theon do in the second half of the season? He's story is being one of the most interesting ones this season!

[naik2902]

margarey is one hot and very cool character. the way she ask about her brother and renly relationship. she was very undestanding character. i wish i wuld have wife like her.

[Lord Martin]

Loved the episode on the whole. The changes made for TV were mostly necessary and I like the choices. Tyrions "One. Two. Three" trap was MASTERFULLY done.

I didn't care for the Sansa/Shae scene. My take on Sansa in ACOK is that despite being around all the horrors of King's Landing (Joffrey, Cersei, the Hound) and despite all her bad treatment, she still feels for others and can be motivated to bravery if it will help others. E.g., Ser Dontos, praying with the women during the sack and a few others I'm sure I'm forgetting.

I can't wait to hear Arya's prayer... a nice gift from Yoren. Did anyone else notice how much they made him look like Ned? Long hair, the beard... he looked A LOT like Ned.

[littleayrastark]

This was my favorite episode of the season so far. I loved Maergery, Natalie Dormer was perfect. So many people were concerned about her casting (too old, not innocent enough etc) but she nailed it. I also liked that, as suspected based upon Natalie Dormer's casting, they are making Maerg into much more of a player.

Renly, "Maergery's a virgin?"

Loras, "Officially."

Hah, that was great. And no I don't think Maerg and Loras relationship is anything other than brother and sister. He likes guys, she likes guys too and has had a lover or two end of story. She's just practical and it was obvious that Renly wasn't interested in her sexually so she was just trying to help him get the job done.

It looks like they are compressing Arya's journey, since she seems to be on her way to Harrenhal (which I can't wait to see btw) much more quickly than in the book. I can pass on the whole march of death thing with the little kids so that is fine by me.

I bet Ramsey doesn't show up until season 3. Considering Reek/Ramsey wasn't cast it seems like a safe bet. They may introduce him differently, avoiding the whole subterfuge as Reek during the Winterfell capture; or dress up an extra for the part until they cast it for S3.

The Reeds may be out altogether or show up in season 3 (maybe just one of them, do you really need Jojen?) or even be replaced with original characters that can lead Bran beyond the wall (or maybe Osha will do it since the producers like her). Bran will be older so they may not be able to resist throwing in a girl for him to have a crush on. They have a lot of info about the past and Robert's rebellion but that could be left out. After all Ned's flashbacks were left out too. I'd personally rather them focus on telling the main story as best they can even if it means taking out characters and, or events from the book.

[Kantor]

Me to - but I'm half way through ADWD - and really - this can be pulled off without them. I like them a lot -- but I think in the end i can live with it.

Maybe they'll bring them in later? Is it totally out of the question?

I think they'll be brought in later. They definitely need to be there when Bran is heading north to see Bloodraven, but for now Bran's subplot isn't as important as that of Tyrion, Jon and Dany, so they'll need to sacrifice some of it.

[Kantor]

The Reeds may be out altogether or show up in season 3 (maybe just one of them, do you really need Jojen?) or even be replaced with original characters that can lead Bran beyond the wall (or maybe Osha will do it since the producers like her). Bran will be older so they may not be able to resist throwing in a girl for him to have a crush on. They have a lot of info about the past and Robert's rebellion but that could be left out. After all Ned's flashbacks were left out too. I'd personally rather them focus on telling the main story as best they can even if it means taking out characters and, or events from the book.

I was thinking the opposite - do you really need Meera? Jojen is a greenseer. He's the one who knows about the Three-Eyed Crow and convinces Bran to go North.

[CrypticWeirwood]

You need Meera so that she can be the older, wiser one. And Bran’s love-interest. And the survivor.