[Book Spoilers] Is Brienne Ugly Enough? How was she?

[WinterWarrior]

As I have already posted, I thought this character was extremely well played by Christie. Brienne is one of my favorite characters in the books.

Also, there are plenty of women over 6 feet tall...just a note since many of you sound like you think finding a woman that large is a difficult task. My husband and I are WNBA season ticket holders and there are many tall women women basketball players in the US, Europe, South America and Africa. When we go to games a good portion of the audience is tall women.

Of course finding a tall woman who is also an excellent actress and could play Brienne was a "tall task" no pun intended. Christie is perfect.

[James Arryn]

My husband and I are WNBA season ticket holders...

That's like top 5 coolest lines I'd like to be able to drop on this discussion. Well, less the husband part, but if that's the price to pay, I'm flexible.

Move on, people, this topic has been resolved.

[wolverine]

This was quoted earlier, from Catelyn's POV, not a jealous mans:

"Beauty, they called her . . . mocking. The hair beneath the visor was a squirrel’s nest of dirty straw, and her face . . . Brienne’s eyes were large and very blue, a young girl’s eyes, trusting and guileless, but the rest . . . her features were broad and coarse, her teeth prominent and crooked, her mouth too wide, her lips so plump they seemed swollen. A thousand freckles speckled her cheeks and brow, and her nose had been broken more than once. Pity filled Catelyn’s heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?"

[Bolivar]

I was certainly shocked to see just how big and imposing she was. That was a job really well done.

[naik2902]

it wuld be interesting to watch on tv show how jaimie pairing her and thier romance. she is 1 feet taller than jaimie.

[BlackTalon]

Brienne seemed a bit overdone to me, the scene where she's walking with Caitlyn you could tell they were using camera tricks with her standing in front of her by quite a bit to make her look taller and bigger. The cheap camera tricks took away a bit for me.

I wouldn´t really call it a cheap trick, yes, she is much closer to the camery than Catelyn plus they are walking up a slightly inclined path so brienne is also slightly higher up, but the cameraman does not really try to conceal that.

BTW Georges´s description of her height is pretty inconsistent. Robert Baratheon is allegedly 6'6''. Renly is described as just as tall and at the tourney Cat notes how Brienne looks DOWN at Renly, being a good hand taller.

On the other hand, during their journey through the riverlands Jamie describes her at some point as "six feet of freckled diapproval looking down at him"

[The Last Direwolf]

I actually thought she was too ugly! Her eyes weren't anywhere near as beautiful as they're described in the books!

[Drinking Cersei's Tears]

it wuld be interesting to watch on tv show how jaimie pairing her and thier romance. she is 1 feet taller than jaimie.

What? The actor playing Jaime is 5'3''?

[Katydid]

This was quoted earlier, from Catelyn's POV, not a jealous mans:

"Beauty, they called her . . . mocking. The hair beneath the visor was a squirrel’s nest of dirty straw, and her face . . . Brienne’s eyes were large and very blue, a young girl’s eyes, trusting and guileless, but the rest . . . her features were broad and coarse, her teeth prominent and crooked, her mouth too wide, her lips so plump they seemed swollen. A thousand freckles speckled her cheeks and brow, and her nose had been broken more than once. Pity filled Catelyn’s heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?"

This initial description from Catelyn of Brienne is what I base her appearance on. There's nothing to be done about the shape of Gwen's face (compared to Brienne's), or the fact that her nose hasn't been broken, but I actually thought they might try and fit Gwen with big, crooked false teeth (and they still may - - we didn't actually get a good look at her mouth in her debut, did we?) - - though I don't believe it'd be necessary.

And of course later on, there's Jaime's "she does have astonishing eyes" comment. :wub:

What? The actor playing Jaime is 5'3''?

No. Nik is about 6'1" or 2", and I think Gwen is listed as an inch taller than him. Which is exactly how Jaime/Brienne should be matched, size-wise. I think they're gonna look fantastic together.

The thing is, across the books George is not consistent in his physical description of her.

In SoS we keep getting Jamie mostly saying she is homely, sometimes he says she is ugly, but we don't get a description of what Jamie thinks 'ugly' is.

Jaime's perception of Brienne changes as their relationship develops. Initially he reacts to her physical appearance with words like "homely" and "ugly" (which really go hand-in-hand), and refers to her as a "horse-faced bitch" at times. But when he dreams about her, he thinks to himself "in this light, she could almost be a beauty" and views her with more of a womanly shape. He also has a pretty - erm, positive reaction to seeing her naked in the Harrenhal baths. Whether or not that's because it's been so long since he's been laid, or whether his perception of Brienne is changing, is debatable.

He begins to see her as a woman - - maybe not the most eye-appealingly beautiful woman in Westeros, certainly not as beautiful as Cersei - - but as the old saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." He's beginning to see his sister as ugly on the inside, just as he's learning to appreciate Brienne's inner-beauty and worth.

[Envie]

This was quoted earlier, from Catelyn's POV, not a jealous mans:

"Beauty, they called her . . . mocking. The hair beneath the visor was a squirrel’s nest of dirty straw, and her face . . . Brienne’s eyes were large and very blue, a young girl’s eyes, trusting and guileless, but the rest . . . her features were broad and coarse, her teeth prominent and crooked, her mouth too wide, her lips so plump they seemed swollen. A thousand freckles speckled her cheeks and brow, and her nose had been broken more than once. Pity filled Catelyn’s heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?"

I think this description re-quoted a couple of times now, is probably meant to be the most accurate one given by GRRM. Most other descriptions are from men, and likely biased from a sexual standpoint.

You have to admit, in reading Catelyn's description, Brienne was probably more than just 'homely' by our standards. Seems in Westeros beauty is much less well defined. We Americans are very narrow minded (mostly from magazine models and movie stars) on what 'beauty' is. Even just in the past 50 years since we all know Marilyn Monroe would be considered obese by today's standards.

All that being said, the actress was not given bucked teeth or swollen lips and a thousand freckles, but I'm OK with that. I'm happy she's so immensely huge, walks with an awkward gait, and has chopped off straw like blonde hair. She definitely gives a more manly / plain countenance to the character and that's believable enough. This is one area I'm not going to nitpick because I loved Brienne's character in the books so much its how she 'acts' in the series that will make all the difference, not how she looks.

[ChromeWeasel]

I think this description re-quoted a couple of times now, is probably meant to be the most accurate one given by GRRM. Most other descriptions are from men, and likely biased from a sexual standpoint.

You have to admit, in reading Catelyn's description, Brienne was probably more than just 'homely' by our standards. Seems in Westeros beauty is much less well defined. We Americans are very narrow minded (mostly from magazine models and movie stars) on what 'beauty' is. Even just in the past 50 years since we all know Marilyn Monroe would be considered obese by today's standards.

All that being said, the actress was not given bucked teeth or swollen lips and a thousand freckles, but I'm OK with that. I'm happy she's so immensely huge, walks with an awkward gait, and has chopped off straw like blonde hair. She definitely gives a more manly / plain countenance to the character and that's believable enough. This is one area I'm not going to nitpick because I loved Brienne's character in the books so much its how she 'acts' in the series that will make all the difference, not how she looks.

Marilyn wouldnt be considered obese today. It's not even close. That's a pretty ridiculous myth when you get right down to it. It's pretty easy to Google the truth on this, or just look at her in a movie or photo.

Numerous scources on this:

http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/the-body-of-marilyn-monroe/

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp

http://jezebel.com/5299793/for-the-last-time-what-size-was-marilyn-monroe

[Envie]

Marilyn wouldnt be considered obese today. It's not even close. That's a pretty ridiculous myth when you get right down to it. It's pretty easy to Google the truth on this, or just look at her in a movie or photo.

Numerous scources on this:

http://www.fatnutrit...marilyn-monroe/

http://www.snopes.co...ors/mmdress.asp

http://jezebel.com/5...-marilyn-monroe

Way off topic and taking the point out of context, but I hear you. It's a common enough comparison about Marilyn Monroe that's used often regardless of whether its factually true she would have body fat percentage considered obese by today's charts. Beauty 100 years ago is not considered beauty today, we know this. The media and film industry has further skewed it by preferring skinny models who look better on film and require less airbrushing to hide flaws.

I daresay the description given of Brienne would be considered even 'homely' by our standards today when sadly she was probably just plain and common looking. I suspect GRRM's portrayal of her was purposely skewed because she was viewed from male / knight opinions of her and likely unfairly because she was so tall / big / strong and could whip their asses.

[Silverx2]

my only complaint is her voice. its a little too robotic, but hopefully with more lines it will work itself out.

I really enjoy brienne's story so it would be a shame to cringe everytime she talks.

[Nebmai]

I'd hit it.

[ChromeWeasel]

Way off topic and taking the point out of context, but I hear you. It's a common enough comparison about Marilyn Monroe that's used often regardless of whether its factually true she would have body fat percentage considered obese by today's charts. Beauty 100 years ago is not considered beauty today, we know this. The media and film industry has further skewed it by preferring skinny models who look better on film and require less airbrushing to hide flaws.

I daresay the description given of Brienne would be considered even 'homely' by our standards today when sadly she was probably just plain and common looking. I suspect GRRM's portrayal of her was purposely skewed because she was viewed from male / knight opinions of her and likely unfairly because she was so tall / big / strong and could whip their asses.

Its not taking your point out of context. You explicitly said that times have changed so much that Marilyn Monroe would be considered obese today. That's a pretty ridiculous myth, as the links I provided show. If you consider that to be off-topic then you shouldnt have offered it as an example in the first place, even if it wasn't just a myth.

If you don't want to get into Marilyn's weight further, just drop the subject or admit that you didnt realize that Marilyn's weight was so exaggerated. It's fine to not know every fact in the world. Sometimes things that you want to believe are true end up being myths. That happens and it's no big deal. Just don't make arguments up about being taken out of context when you're dead wrong about something. It's quite clear that you weren't taken out of context. If you didn't know the facts when you made your post, you do now.

As far as Brienne goes, Wolverine's quote from the text shows that Brienne really is supposed to be un-arguably ugly:

"Beauty, they called her . . . mocking. The hair beneath the visor was a squirrel’s nest of dirty straw, and her face . . . Brienne’s eyes were large and very blue, a young girl’s eyes, trusting and guileless, but the rest . . . her features were broad and coarse, her teeth prominent and crooked, her mouth too wide, her lips so plump they seemed swollen. A thousand freckles speckled her cheeks and brow, and her nose had been broken more than once. Pity filled Catelyn’s heart. Is there any creature on earth as unfortunate as an ugly woman?"

That's definitely not just plain and common looking, and since it came from Catlyn Stark its not skewed from a male perspective, as you are claiming. Brienne is clearly 'ugly.' The show isn't making her ugly at all. She's not even particularly unattractive. She's just big and socially awkward. It's definitely a change from the books.

[boojam]

That's definitely not just plain and common looking, and since it came from Catlyn Stark its not skewed from a male perspective, as you are claiming. Brienne is clearly 'ugly.' The show isn't making her ugly at all. She's not even particularly unattractive. She's just big and socially awkward. It's definitely a change from the books.

Finding an actress who can play the part cuts through a whole lot of 'ugly'!

[WhiteWalder]

After looking at pictures of Gwendoline Christie, they definitely "uglied" her up for her role as Brienne. I thought the portayal was awesome, and they almost made her ugly enough.

[Auska]

I really don't like relying on the book for beautiful/handsome/ugly/whatever. Y'all realize they're *always* written as POVs, right? :) Brienne, with low self-esteem, would think herself unattractive. Jaime, used to the prettiest of pretty, wouldn't think her attractive. And so on.

I don't mean that she's really a glamazon or anything, but I think Christie's probably about right. Fairly plain, ungainly outside combat, imposing, muscular…

[packersfan]

For all of you criticizing that she is not UGLY enough...are you saying she is a beauty. Consider the scales of beauty and ugly in this show. I don't have a hard time a all thinking Briene is ugly, she is not a pampered pretty lady...it would take a lot of work to make her pretty, by the standards of Westeros courts, and she is still very tall, gangly and awkward, with a awkward mannish voice. I never imagined her looking like a hideous monster. I think the depiction in the show is pretty good.

I saw some comments on Asha's appearance...I think she actually is a little blah...maybe not by Iron Island standards, who knows? I pictured her a little more hot and strong. She looks like a real bitch, but kind of trashy and little fat around the belly. Really makes Theon look like a horny toad...anything with tits he wants to screw. But of course, the ship captain's daughter wasn't anything to look at (just like in the book).

[teemo]

I think she was perfect. I thought the POV characters always exaggerated about her ugliness a bit anyways. She's just huge. And if anyone really think she was a stereotypical Westerosi beauty in the show, then you are in the minority.