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Salome the Persian Witch

(Book Spoilers) Margaery Tyrell

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I liked, as many characters Margeery never got a chapter, so everything we know of her his small talk, and the other characters impressions of her...

We do discover by Cersei that Margaery wasn't that sweet pie she as posing.. all that RenlyXLorasXMargaery (even though RenlyXloras is more easyly saw at series than at the book). She wasnt virgin, and asked for the Moon's tea to prevent any pregnency .. so we did discover that she was sluty after, but that isn't a thing that comes from nowhere she were always a slut, just didn't got caught...

I realy like all Renly and Margaery screenplay because in the books there almost none.

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Why do people assume they will cut Olenna Redwyne Tyrell? ASoS will get two seasons, there will be more than enough space for her. And she will be fun! There is no reason why they would cut a character like her.

And Margaery being interested in motivating Renly to give her son is her job as his wife. This does not make her to Olenna 2.0. And offering to help Renly along getting this thing (i.e. threesome or 'bending over') has nothing to do with political acumen. Any queen of homosexual king would have been aware of the fact that her role at court would depend on giving birth to an heir.

I'm not convinced they will cut her either. There is still a long way to go before the PW, and I consider her a quite prominent character, even if she isn't mentioned a whole ton. She's the Tyrell mastermind, that counts for something.

I said I saw more of Olenna in her through her demeanor, looks, and personality, not as much with how she acted with Renly and Loras. She did, however, show some cleverness there and I think she will to continue to.

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Why do people assume they will cut Olenna Redwyne Tyrell? ASoS will get two seasons, there will be more than enough space for her. And she will be fun! There is no reason why they would cut a character like her.

And Margaery being interested in motivating Renly to give her son is her job as his wife. This does not make her to Olenna 2.0. And offering to help Renly along getting this thing (i.e. threesome or 'bending over') has nothing to do with political acumen. Any queen of homosexual king would have been aware of the fact that her role at court would depend on giving birth to an heir.

The reason they would cut Olenna is the same reason they've already cut dozens of characters: budget and time. There is no possible way all of the characters can be shown for a >10 hour TV show so they have to either eliminate those particular storylines or combine characters. They appear to combining Olenna's major character points with Loras and Margaery. Loras and Marg have been shown to be the force behind Renly taking a crown and creating the Tyrell alliance. This could have very well happened behind the scenes in the book, but we're sort of led to believe that Olenna is the mastermind.

I like Olenna as much as the next person and it's not definite that her role will be cut, there just happens to be a lot of evidence that it may. They can create a believable adaptation without her.

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This also brings out a interesting idea...

With the show's portrayal. Cersei's idea about Loras/Margaery don't seem too far off now.

Although there's the fact that this also showed Margaery as a competent player in the game and sleeping with Loras would just be too dumb.

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I don't think Margaery is actually going to have intercourse with Loras....

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I certainly don't remember Loras shaving Renly's chest and giving him a blow job, in the books, though their relationship was otherwise apparent.

I haven't seen season 2 yet, except for Episode 1 and some previews of Margery dropping her clothes in the tent for a threesome, but I always thought Natalie Dormer was so wrong for the character as written. Too old, too sexy. Cant see her having playdates with Tommen--But if they're going to streamline the amount of characters, as they've been doing, for practical matters, it now makes sense to me that the masterminding "queen of thorns" could be dispensed with.

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But they have cut no really important character as of yet. They have mostly delayed them (i.e. the Tullys and Reeds). Jacelyn Bywater is no important character. Neither are Dany's bloodriders or handmaidens.

Olenna Tyrell greatly influences the main plot of the story. Changing it would be a huge change, and I can't see how Margaery's character would profit from that. After all, besides being somewhat aware of politics and her role in it, TV Margaery does not seem to be genius, nor is she the 'dominating Tyrell'. All she does in episode 3 is trying to ensure that her marriage will be an actual consummated marriage which is going to give King Renly and Queen Margaery an heir. End of story. And in fact Loras really seems to be nothing but the ambitious boy he is. Making Renly king was his (and Mace's) bad idea, but Loras has no real plan, nor is he some kind of mastermind. Look how he became jealous of Brienne! TV Loras is just as hollow as book Loras.

The whole story at KL of seasons 3 & 4 will evolve around the wedding of Joffrey and Margaery. They will have time enough to introduce us to Mace and Olenna Tyrell. I do not expect Garlan to have a major role, but even he might be there. The Tyrells will become more and more important in later seasons, so there is really no need here to oversimplify stuff.

But the main reason why they would rather cut/omit Mace Tyrell (just another ambitious lord) from the show than Olenna is the fact that Lady Olenna is the one and only powerful older woman in this whole story. We've got mothers and daughters, but there is virtually no grandmother besides the Queen of Thorns. And considering the whole take of the show on the dynamics between children and their mothers (i.e. Cersei/Joffrey; Catelyn/Robb) it will be interesting to see how a widowed grandmother rules subtly controls her house. I really expect to see some glimpse of the relationship between Mace and his mother.

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But they have cut no really important character as of yet. They have mostly delayed them (i.e. the Tullys and Reeds). Jacelyn Bywater is no important character. Neither are Dany's bloodriders or handmaidens.

Olenna Tyrell greatly influences the main plot of the story. Changing it would be a huge change, and I can't see how Margaery's character would profit from that. After all, besides being somewhat aware of politics and her role in it, TV Margaery does not seem to be genius, nor is she the 'dominating Tyrell'. All she does in episode 3 is trying to ensure that her marriage will be an actual consummated marriage which is going to give King Renly and Queen Margaery an heir. End of story. And in fact Loras really seems to be nothing but the ambitious boy he is. Making Renly king was his (and Mace's) bad idea, but Loras has no real plan, nor is he some kind of mastermind. Look how he became jealous of Brienne! TV Loras is just as hollow as book Loras.

The whole story at KL of seasons 3 & 4 will evolve around the wedding of Joffrey and Margaery. They will have time enough to introduce us to Mace and Olenna Tyrell. I do not expect Garlan to have a major role, but even he might be there. The Tyrells will become more and more important in later seasons, so there is really no need here to oversimplify stuff.

But the main reason why they would rather cut/omit Mace Tyrell (just another ambitious lord) from the show than Olenna is the fact that Lady Olenna is the one and only powerful older woman in this whole story. We've got mothers and daughters, but there is virtually no grandmother besides the Queen of Thorns. And considering the whole take of the show on the dynamics between children and their mothers (i.e. Cersei/Joffrey; Catelyn/Robb) it will be interesting to see how a widowed grandmother rules subtly controls her house. I really expect to see some glimpse of the relationship between Mace and his mother.

Perfectly stated. This is exactly why she can't and won't be cut.

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Her opening line when she was cheering for Loras was so horrible, but I like Dormer in the Tudors and she seemed okay after that. It makes sense to cast her with an older actress and of questionable morality since HBO does like to show sex, possibly she will be the one scheming instead of her grandmother in season three as well. It seems like many other characters are getting combined and that would be an easy one to do.

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You're twisting what I said. I never said I didn't realize Renly is gay from the books! I said it wasn't written explicitly like it is in the show. Renly never had multiple sex scenes in the book with Loras, never even kissed him or flirted or came close to it - so don't even try to say the book was as obvious as what we're watching (repeatedly) with sex scenes on the series. My point in saying that was to show how over the top obvious they play some things which in turn can translate to far more revealing and sexy costumes and behaviors from other characters like Melisandre and now Margaery.

Show me where in the text of the book this is 'spelled out' and I'll agree with you a little more that readers should realize Renly was gay but not everyone did.

Renly is not a pov character, we have no idea what he did when he was off scene in the books. The tv show follows him when he is off book, so of course it will show us what he is really like.

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Wow, there are like so many major clues. I could write them all out here...I have them labeled, but that would take some time. One I remember in particular is when Jaime came back to KL and Loras became all defensive whenever Jaime mentioned Renly. When Jaime asked him why such a good looking man would join the Kingsguard (since he can't marry/have kids), Loras said - "When the sun sets, no candle can replace it."

He also became very prickly with even Sansa when she brought up Renly. He slew two highborn knights in an violent rage when Renly was killed. Jaime also made a reference to shoving his sword so far up his arse to even a place that Renly couldn't reach it. Renly and Loras spent a lot of time...."praying" together. There was a lot of stuff there.

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But they have cut no really important character as of yet. They have mostly delayed them (i.e. the Tullys and Reeds). Jacelyn Bywater is no important character. Neither are Dany's bloodriders or handmaidens.

Olenna Tyrell greatly influences the main plot of the story. Changing it would be a huge change, and I can't see how Margaery's character would profit from that. After all, besides being somewhat aware of politics and her role in it, TV Margaery does not seem to be genius, nor is she the 'dominating Tyrell'. All she does in episode 3 is trying to ensure that her marriage will be an actual consummated marriage which is going to give King Renly and Queen Margaery an heir. End of story. And in fact Loras really seems to be nothing but the ambitious boy he is. Making Renly king was his (and Mace's) bad idea, but Loras has no real plan, nor is he some kind of mastermind. Look how he became jealous of Brienne! TV Loras is just as hollow as book Loras.

The whole story at KL of seasons 3 & 4 will evolve around the wedding of Joffrey and Margaery. They will have time enough to introduce us to Mace and Olenna Tyrell. I do not expect Garlan to have a major role, but even he might be there. The Tyrells will become more and more important in later seasons, so there is really no need here to oversimplify stuff.

But the main reason why they would rather cut/omit Mace Tyrell (just another ambitious lord) from the show than Olenna is the fact that Lady Olenna is the one and only powerful older woman in this whole story. We've got mothers and daughters, but there is virtually no grandmother besides the Queen of Thorns. And considering the whole take of the show on the dynamics between children and their mothers (i.e. Cersei/Joffrey; Catelyn/Robb) it will be interesting to see how a widowed grandmother rules subtly controls her house. I really expect to see some glimpse of the relationship between Mace and his mother.

If that scene was only about Loras being jealous and Marg trying to conceive an heir then your argument that they are not major schemers may be valid. Fortunately, that scene was a lot more than that and it displayed that the writers can employ a bit of subtly.

We see at manipulative and scheming Loras can be in season 1 during the shaving scene. This isn't just something thrown in their to show that they are lovers. It's very clear that Renly isn't buying that he could claim the Iron Throne but Loras gives a very rousing, manipulative speech on why he's just perfect for it. This scene in this episode goes on to show that Loras has convinced Renly, Loras' family is the major powerhouse alliance and Loras understands that Renly needs to consummate his marriage to seal the alliance. 'Tis better to not exhaust Renly if Renly is to attempt to perform with Marg. Is he miffed about Brienne? Yeah, sure. He's his lover, why wouldn't he bit.

In comes Marg. Is she attempting to consummate the union? Yeah, sure. But all of her dialogue indicates that she's well versed in political intrigue. She's not into lying or playing games with her husband, all of that can be saved for court. It's a pretty savvy way to display how cunning she is. It was very Queen of Thorns-ish.

Could there be a QoT or other Tyrell behind all of this play for power? Probably; likely. But it doesn't mean that they aren't playing up these traits in Loras and Marg as well. I agree they still have plenty of time to cast Olenna and maybe they will. But the point I'm making is that they could successfully tell the story without her. It wouldn't mean her entire character is eliminated, it would mean that they'd dish out the traits that make her character to other characters.

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As House Tyrell becomes major players in season 3 onwards, it would be silly only to have Loras and Marg to represent them. I fully expect the Queen of Thorns, as well as Mace to appear (maybe even Garlan), so that the complexities and intrigues of that house might be explored as well, as it had with the other ones. One of the things that bothered me about the books was the lack of a POV from a Tyrell, but the TV-show can easily remedy that.

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I loved Dormer's portrayal. I loved her dress and found it a fitting style for a southern lady. I love the scene with Renly because it does clarify some important details for later on.

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Lets not forget, Margeary has been raised and "trained" by her Grandmother, the Queen of Thorns. Margeary is the brains of her generation of Tyrells. She will do what is necessary.

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I certainly don't remember Loras shaving Renly's chest and giving him a blow job, in the books, though their relationship was otherwise apparent.

I haven't seen season 2 yet, except for Episode 1 and some previews of Margery dropping her clothes in the tent for a threesome, but I always thought Natalie Dormer was so wrong for the character as written. Too old, too sexy. Cant see her having playdates with Tommen--But if they're going to streamline the amount of characters, as they've been doing, for practical matters, it now makes sense to me that the masterminding "queen of thorns" could be dispensed with.

There was no explicit homosexuality of Renly or Loras in the books. All Martin writes are hints about there relationship. The only thing that's explicit is that the two men care about each other a great deal. The physicality of their relationship is left to your imagination.

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I loved Dormer's portrayal. I loved her dress and found it a fitting style for a southern lady. I love the scene with Renly because it does clarify some important details for later on.

I loved Margaery in the show as well. She was fantastic. One of the best things about her scene with Renly is the very basic point that Margaery understands the concept of political marriage between powerful noble families. Margaery is reality. Her and Renly aren't married for love, they are married for politics, just like most other nobles in Westeros. Love would be nice, but it's not the reason for their union. They need to strengthen their families and they need to have children to do so.

The nobility in Westeros would know this. This would be the accepted standard. I love the fact that Margaery clarifies reality to the audience. It's a huge step up from the juvenile assumption that noble relationships are supposed to operate like they do in 21st century America.

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Dormer is perfect for the role as Margery was portrayed in the show, whether that was by design before she was cast or they decided to give her more of a "player" type role after they cast her is unclear.

In the books, by this point, we have no inkling of her being any more than a pretty girl from a powerful family.

She definitely grew into a player in the books, but this seems a tad early for whatever reason.

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I couldn't stop laughing when Margery simply matter-of-factly suggested that she go get Loras to help the situation, and kept firing suggestions and giving Renly political advice until the scene changed. Certainly not what I was expecting right out of the gate- but she has the QoT wit and bite to her, that's for sure. I think I'm going to like TV Margery more than book Margery.

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