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(Book Spoilers) Margaery Tyrell


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They would be able to tell the story as of yet without any additional Tyrells. But the Tyrells still did not get their moment in the spotlight in the books. We still have no Tyrell POV. But after ADwD the Tyrells will be the main power behind King Tommen. They will be more and more important, not just as power behind Tommen's throne, but also as house threatened by the Ironborn, and possibly Dorne. And the whole Samwell plot in Oldtown will also be connected to House Tyrell (through Lazy Leo and Maester Gormon).

Lady Olenna may/will return in the books, and considering the fact that both Loras (who might succumb to his wounds) or Margaery (who very well might be condemned and executed by the Faith) are right now in no position to represent House Tyrell.

All the show did with Loras last season was to provide an answer why Renly would end up claiming the Iron Throne for himself. And that's why the blow job (including the 'sound effects') works really nicely. Renly needed that to become convinced that he should be king.

We don't got Balon's brothers this season. But we will need Aeron, Victarion, and Euron if they do not intend to drop the whole Kingsmoot thing. And not just for that, we need them for the whole Ironborn story in AFfC/ADwD/TWoW.

Just as we need the Tyrells for seasons 3/4. We might not get Lady Alerie, three Tyrell cousins, Lord Rowan, or the Redwyne twins (but Randyll Tarly and Paxter Redwyne with his fleet will be at least be mentioned, and Tarly will appear as a minor character).

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I think she's fine. I liked Natalie Dormer in the Tudors. Margaery is one of the characters in the book I never really cared for so it doesn't bother me that she's being shown differently.

However, I am going to have a hard time seeing her try to play innocent and pure for the Lannisters later on after seeing her like this, but that's much later. I'm going to wait and see what they do with her. I am intrigued which is more than I can say for book Margaery.

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I think she's fine. I liked Natalie Dormer in the Tudors. Margaery is one of the characters in the book I never really cared for so it doesn't bother me that she's being shown differently.

However, I am going to have a hard time seeing her try to play innocent and pure for the Lannisters later on after seeing her like this, but that's much later. I'm going to wait and see what they do with her. I am intrigued which is more than I can say for book Margaery.

Why would you have a hard time? You know she was doing it just for the advacement of her house either way. Do you have a hard time seeing other characters being manipulative?

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No way they cut the QUEEN OF THORNS. She is one of the best characters fit for a TV adaptation. She brings that Tudorish scheming and backstabbing (I know this show is not short of treachery), but you will need to see the QOT interactions with Margery later on when she marries Joffery, and when the Tyrells become major players at King's Landing. Plus there are so many great actresses you could cast for that role MAGGIE SMITH is leaving ABBEY, not that I think they will cast her. HELEN MIRREN would be great as QOT. There are a lot of women that could fit.

Plus you want to see the someone who can take Cersei head on -- the QOT is that person. I actually think they will expand the QOT role.

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Why would you have a hard time? You know she was doing it just for the advacement of her house either way. Do you have a hard time seeing other characters being manipulative?

No. That's not the problem.

What I mean is that Margaery's innocent, sweet act is very convincing in the books because she's still fairly young and its not really a stretch. Natalie Dormer looks like a mature grown and confident woman and that's how she came off immediately in the show. It will be jarring to see an adult woman pretending to be essentially, like a sweet, innocent, teenage girl. Since they cast her, and the show is very good at casting, I'm sure they have other plans on how Margaery will play the game, but we won't see that till later. If they were going to have her play the virginal, unassuming princess it will look weird seeing an adult woman do that, in my opinion at least.

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No. That's not the problem.

What I mean is that Margaery's innocent, sweet act is very convincing in the books because she's still fairly young and its not really a stretch. Natalie Dormer looks like a mature grown and confident woman and that's how she came off immediately in the show. It will be jarring to see an adult woman pretending to be essentially, like a sweet, innocent, teenage girl. Since they cast her, and the show is very good at casting, I'm sure they have other plans on how Margaery will play the game, but we won't see that till later. If they were going to have her play the virginal, unassuming princess it will look weird seeing an adult woman do that, in my opinion at least.

I can agree with that, She appears to match Renly in age in the show, with Joffrey its going to start getting a bit Debra Lafave-y.....

And with Tommen its going to be downright sick

provided they dont change things up, which they'll have to.

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I can agree with that, She appears to match Renly in age in the show, with Joffrey its going to start getting a bit Debra Lafave-y.....

And with Tommen its going to be downright sick

provided they dont change things up, which they'll have to.

LOL. I'm dying to see what they are going to do with Tommen, because that would be most disturbing. :lol:

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I can agree with that, She appears to match Renly in age in the show, with Joffrey its going to start getting a bit Debra Lafave-y.....

And with Tommen its going to be downright sick

provided they dont change things up, which they'll have to.

Why is it going to be sick with Tommen? I don't remember any mention of her ever touching or kissing Tommen in any way in the book. If I remember correctly, she merely befriended him and played with him as an older sister would to a younger brother. Isn't she the ones gave him the kittens?

While I'm positive all that was a complete ruse just to get under Cersei's skin because it was written plainly how outraged Cersei was and how Margaery had won little Tommen over to the point he defended her bravely from his Mother.

As far as we know, Margaery never actually marries Tommen - it was just a political match that wasn't going to amount to anything serious. Not that its out of the question, these sorts of child to adult marriages were common in medieval / elizabethan times as well. In fact we all know quite well elderly noble men were famous for taking child brides to ally two royal families and there were even older widows who took young husbands though not as common because the male typically chose his wife whereas the female did not. I seriously doubt if Margaery and Tommen actually married she would have anything to do with him as a 'little boy' until he became a man and could really consummate a marriage. She would continue to treat him as her 'little king' ...doesn't strike me as a pedo type.

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No. That's not the problem.

What I mean is that Margaery's innocent, sweet act is very convincing in the books because she's still fairly young and its not really a stretch. Natalie Dormer looks like a mature grown and confident woman and that's how she came off immediately in the show. It will be jarring to see an adult woman pretending to be essentially, like a sweet, innocent, teenage girl. Since they cast her, and the show is very good at casting, I'm sure they have other plans on how Margaery will play the game, but we won't see that till later. If they were going to have her play the virginal, unassuming princess it will look weird seeing an adult woman do that, in my opinion at least.

Margaery in the books was always a fully confident, self-assured woman. That was her presentation from the start. Do you assume that she's oblivious to politics because she's nice to people and she doesnt overtly take advantage of everyone around her?

On the one hand, it's perfectly reasonable for Margaery to actually BE a nice person who doesnt take advantage of people and still be a politician with clout. Just because you try to take care of yourself and your family doesnt mean that you need to beat everyone down around you while doing it.

On the other hand, it might all just be an act, where Margaery has found that the best way to win allies and hold power is to be loved by the people around you. It doesnt matter too much because we don't know at this point. Either way the end results are the same.

As far as sex and child-bearing goes, everything that Margaery says in the show (other than Lancel helping out) is pure common sense and would be understood by everyone in Westeros. Marriage isn't about love between men and women of noble birth in that society. I take her dialogue with Renly as a reminder to the audience of how things work.

I'm not surprised that some people have a hard reaction to this, because a lot of people have very little knowledge of medieval society. But I would hope that people realize that's the way things worked back then rather than assume something negative about Margaery. The real problem is if the viewers can't identify with the reality of the time. Marriages were used mostly as alliances between families. Children were more important than love and happiness between the parents. And affairs were expected and more or less condoned, since husband and wife weren't married for love anyways. I'm sure that a lot of the issues people have with characters in the book stem from ignorance of those basic principles.

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Margaery in the books was always a fully confident, self-assured woman. That was her presentation from the start. Do you assume that she's oblivious to politics because she's nice to people and she doesnt overtly take advantage of everyone around her?

I don't understand how you got that from my post. I never said anything about Marg not knowing about politics in the book. I didn't even bring up the subject. All I said is that in the books she comes off as this sweet little princess, which may or may not be an act because the Tyrells do seem to have some plan and of course Marg would have political knowledge to be part of whatever it is the Tyrells want.

I don't really have a "problem" with Marg's presentation in the show. I'm just wondering how they are going to play her out once she reaches KL.

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As far as we know, Margaery never actually marries Tommen - ....

....I seriously doubt if Margaery and Tommen actually married she would have anything to do with him as a 'little boy' until he became a man and could really consummate a marriage. She would continue to treat him as her 'little king' ...doesn't strike me as a pedo type.

They are wedded in the books. AFFC, Chapter 12, Cersei III. They are not bedded. Though they do spend their wedding night in the same bed under guard.

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Margaery never has a POV chapter in the books, correct? Martin's always been quite clever at disguising someone's real intentions and personality when they aren't a POV character. I think this may be why there are so many varying interpretations of what Margaery's personality is really like.

To others,particularly men, she's going to come across as quite sweet, innocent and ladylike. Obviously Cersei's opinion of her later is vastly different from that as well as how Sansa views her (with suspicion and fear because Sansa believes by that time everyone's out to get her).

I think its entirely possible George intends Margaery to be just as crafty and political savvy as she's portrayed this early on in the series, but its well hidden under other character's skewed POV descriptions of her.

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They are wedded in the books. AFFC, Chapter 12, Cersei III. They are not bedded. Though they do spend their wedding night in the same bed under guard.

Thanks for correcting that. My memory of the early books is fading fast. Damn you George for taking so long to finish this epic story! ;)

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She's obviously well-schooled in the game in both. She's a lot more forward in the tv imo. Although she carefully cultivates her public persona in the book, we get to see her behind closed doors in the tv show- hence why her amd tommen could definitely get a pedo thing going on with all those options she gave renly.

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Thanks for correcting that. My memory of the early books is fading fast. Damn you George for taking so long to finish this epic story! ;)

I know what you mean. Now that the show is on, I'm starting to have problems separating what happens in the show and what happens in the books.

I didn't start reading until ADWD was just about to be released. I have no idea how people can handle waiting so many years between books as I'm already getting pretty itchy for the next installment.

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This is another Tyrell character being portrayed in a different light than the books. First, they made Loras Tyrell gay, which a lot of people say it was hinted in the book. And now, they make Margaery into a sexual cunning princess who knows how to play the game as well as the next player.

I do not dislike this portrayal of Margaery because it makes her more interesting than the book Margaery, who seems like a little high born girl who's naive to things.

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I know what you mean. Now that the show is on, I'm starting to have problems separating what happens in the show and what happens in the books.

I didn't start reading until ADWD was just about to be released. I have no idea how people can handle waiting so many years between books as I'm already getting pretty itchy for the next installment.

I've actually read all the books up to Dance twice. Once as they were released (except the very first one had already been out a couple years) and then once again about 2 years ago. i've gone back and re-skimmed some of them when ADWD came out for clarification as well. So I think it was around 1998 when I read Game of Thrones and started following the series very loosely over the years. I didn't become a rabid fan until around Feast For Crows time period when I re-read the others in preparation for the new release... so maybe 2005? haha, regardless, I've been waiting for these books way way too long and the series is now making me think I need yet another re-read but I'm so busy I can't take the epic time required for those 5000+ pages right now, so I live vicariously through the series, trying to recall the books as I go. This site and the wiki are great helps for that.

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