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Why is it that not many girls like Fantasy?


rumple9

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Guest Raidne

My thoughts went where AG's went - women (girls when we'd start reading this stuff, no?) don't really associate anything pleasant with guys who read fantasy. It's not exactly like developing a passion for classic film (or poetry, or acoustic guitar...).

Anyway, these days tons of women read fantasy repackaged as chick lit - it's like the Da Vinci Code for the Sex and the City set. Discovery of Witches, Twilight, etc. It's, IMO, on par with a lot of the shit I see on the average D&Ders bookshelf. But I can't get my friends who read that stuff to read even, say, Robin Hobb or Ursula Le Guin.

Is it a coincidence that I started reading progressively more fantasy as the other people reading fantasy stopped all seeming like potential stalkers? I don't know.

But can we ask a DIFFERENT question for once? Why is it that pretty much all women who DO read epic fantasy are pretty amazing?

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I don't know. I have always loved fantasy, but I have had very, very few girl friends (like 1) that do. But there do seem to be a ton of women readers on here. I think ASOIAF has a lot of very strong female characters in it, so that may be part of it. I think it's mostly because it's just awesome though.

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I think a lot of the "epic" Fantasy series are immature or written specifically to caters to boys fantasies, just like a Twilight is written for teenage girls. I would certainly take a step back if the woman I dated was collecting Twilight-type books at the exclusion of any other genre, and was living in that "bubble" to "escape the harsh realities of life" long term.

That being said, there are "epic" fantasies written with women in mind: Stuff like the Tamir trilogy, the Black Jewels trilogy, Kushiel's dart, Swordspoint, anything Lackey, Darkover, PERN... Not the cream of the crop either but It sells. Also, it's anecdotal, but I met one of my best female friends because of that: she reads everything, and more, still mostly in speculative fiction, (though I wouldn't say it was for escapism), her husband doesn't understand it at all. Maybe a reverse stereotype, but for some reason, I never felt the stereotype applied to adults, who would have outgrown their Yugi-oh obsessions and experienced what was liked on the other side of the fence.

Well the reason for my question is that I have just come from a very long term relationship where my recent ex has accussed me of being a geek living in a bubble, whereas i see fantasy (books/tv/games) as escapism from the harsh realties of life, and it got me round to thinking that in future I need to find a woman who shares similar interests
Without knowing more than that, I get the impression the problem your ex had there is not Fantasy, but the "escapism"/living in your bubble part, she would likely have acted the same if you were into obsessively collecting stamps or tuning your car. Sounds more like a shout for attention and a criticism of your general attitude than a jab at the genre.

But can we ask a DIFFERENT question for once? Why is it that pretty much all women who DO read epic fantasy are pretty amazing?
Because they read out of their comfort zone and are most likely to be extremely well read overall, since Fantasy is unlikely to be their exclusive genre, and trying different genres is a sign of an open mind (especially the genres with a negative reputation). I expect those women to generally end up preferring SF and historical fiction among the genre fictions, compared to Fantasy, in the end, though.
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I suspect there's a difference perceived about men who are hooked on a genre of literature for their past time, and those who have to take it further, with their board games and card games and buying swords off the Internet and playing WoW until 3 a.m. I'm sure that strikes many women as being juvenile and unsexy.

I also agree with what others said about the book covers and other illustrations from the fantasy genre of pop fiction and games and comic books--at least from my generation, and I'm nearly 46. (and I didn't like Harlequin romance covers either!) but as for the text itself, I loved Tolkien in my youth, and my sister collected all of those Dragonriders of Pern books, Merlin stuff, and some other series. I never heard of GoT until HBO made the series, probably because I was in grad school in its early years, but now I've read them all. HOWEVER, despite all the advances in female characterizations, I still find there's too much gratuitous sex and torture in Martin's series. I tolerate it because of everything else that I get out of the series (although the last booked could have omitted much of that rich description in favor of advancing the story instead....).

I never heard of urban fantasy, but if that's what Barnes&Noble refers to as the "teen paranormal romance" section that my 12yr old heads straight for, well, not my cup of tea.

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Guest Raidne

Don't know EB, I read more fantasy than anything else and most of the women I know who read it have read everything I've read, especially here. I don't think the women here are primarily ASOIAF readers only, either, as was also mentioned upthread. Am I wrong?

Curious about that last post - in what way are the women you know who read fantasy not amazing?

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I once, many years ago, went to the apartment of a guy I worked with for some reason or another (not to hook up, although in retrospect I think he thought that's why I was there) and he had a giant bookshelf full of hardcover fantasy novels. Seriously, it was the kind of thing that a lot of people on this board go nuts over, but for me it was a huge turn off. His dedication to fantasy novels and D & D made me feel like I wouldn't be able to relate to him because, at that time, I had not read any fantasy. I had no experience with the genre, so being in the presence of such a huge fantasy geek (I use that term lovingly) was kind of overwhelming. It seemed odd to me that a 25-year-old man would be so in to playing games and reading books with magic and swords and probably even magic swords in them, and the dedication to this singular sub-genre of literature sent me a (false) message that this guy wasn't very well-rounded.

I've pretty much always been a huge SFF fan, but I remember Couchsurfing a with a very geeky guy once, which should have been just fine, except his collection sort of went up to Martin and stopped there. Jordan, Eddings, Feist, lots of Dragonlance, tie-in stuff, etc, purely the super narrow and rather dated brickish epic fantasies, and I was kind of...disconcerted by that. It did seem very regressive and immature somehow (It was an active collection filled with new books, and I was a total SFF fan at the time.) How about trying some Mieville, eh? Or an alt history? Some magic realism? A bit of steampunk? Something urban? Dude, even...Scott Lynch? Never heard of him. Just the one book would have made me feel better. I would have been relieved to spot a Bakker.

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Well, one of them a manipulative asshole who would pee on people while they were asleep. For starters.

Oh and one of them used to seduce guys to get them to covert to Christianity.

Not nice people.

So, no, not amazing. Then again I bizarrely know a LOT Of women who read fantasy, and this is America where like 1 out of 4 people is insane these days. (OUT OF 4 PEOPLE not WOMEN before you all get started).

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Oh and one of them used to seduce guys to get them to covert to Christianity.
Hmm, if someone is so into Christianity, how can she actually sleep with multiple guys without marriage? Doesn't sound not nice as much as it sounds crazy. Weird.

But it gets to prove that blanket generalizations are always wrong, doesn't it? ;)

so what would a twilight fan think of a person who reads fantasy? i wonder.
Probably something along the lines of "eww, he isn't even sparkling"

Speaking of that kind of thing, a love for Bakker would be a total deal-breaker for me.
What about not hating what he wrote? Kinda like the reaction to Louis Ferdinand Céline.
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Well, one of them a manipulative asshole who would pee on people while they were asleep. For starters.

Oh and one of them used to seduce guys to get them to covert to Christianity.

What's weird is I'm disgusted by the latter but strangle strangely intrigued by the former.

Strangely enough, there was a guy in college who, according to gay acquaintances, would sleep with other men then post-coitus explain how homosexuality was wrong. Campus myth I suspect.

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Guest Raidne

I'm a Bakker fan, but that made me laugh.

Totally not a sexism thing. I just suspect every fan of thinking they are the Master Devious Manipulator of the Universe. You know, like Bakker does. I wouldn't want to sully any such person's space with the stink of normal fallible humanity. I think of my loathing of Bakker like my love for the film The Passions of Ayn Rand. It's kind of a hobby.

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Guest Raidne

EB, unless Kellhus gets skull-fucked in front of cheering crowds by a Serwe zombie wielding a Consult-modeled dildo while Akka pokes under a rock and is like "Look! It's my balls!" by the end the answer is the same.

Apologies for my pseudo-rape fantasies and equation of male genitalia with honor and integrity - it's all the epic fantasy I read.

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Hmm, if someone is so into Christianity, how can she actually sleep with multiple guys without marriage? Doesn't sound not nice as much as it sounds crazy. Weird.

I got out of bed just to reply to this one, because it's so crazy it's one of those things you have to share or your brain implodes.

According to her, if you're wearing an article of clothing and not lying down, its not sex.

So, if you do it standing up wearing a hat, that's not sex, according to the bible.

I'm serious.

She also thought Lord of the Rings was filled with hidden messages about Jesus. Not even in an allegory way(which is also funny if you've read JRRT opinion on allegory).

I'll let that simmer around in your brains for a bit while I sleep. I am not responsible if your head explodes.

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