What about Loras?

[Nfestid]

Loras Tyrell has been largely forgotten and presumed dead because of the battle he lead at Dragonstone.

Ceresei does not know about his whereabouts, and indeed almost no one other than the Tyrells are likely to know where he is right about now.

Many people have presumed that he will live, but what will his purpose be? How will he advance the plot?

I think that his role is to defeat Robert Strong A.K.A. Ser Gregor during ceresei's trial. Loras defeated Gregor at the tourney of the hand that was held for Ned and I hope that he can do it again so we get to watch Ceresei die, also we get to read about another epic sword battle if I am correct.

thoughts?

-Nfestid

[redxavier]

Well, Loras defeated Ser Gregor in the joust, but not in the sword fight that followed when the Mountain got wroth. It took Sandor's intervention to save Loras. I think it might make for an interesting twist to have them fight again. I can't say much for his chances though.

I for one don't believe the story that Loras is horribly burned. Such an event played too much to Cersei's hopes to be true, and it kicked off her attempt to get rid of Margaery.

[Martello]

I like this idea. Maybe Margaery will demand a trial by combat as well, and have Loras make a shock return to be her champion. If this happened, it would be a neat little literary trick by GRRM - he has Jon Connington explain in-universe that people forget about a character sent offstage with little fanfare, and then pulls the same thing on his own audience with Loras coming back. (And then killing him off immediately, because a) trials by combat rarely go well, B) Loras doesn't have much use to the plot afterwards, and c) that's the sort of thing GRRM would do.)

[girlfrommonday]

but Margaery already choosed trial by judges of the Faith

[CrypticWeirwood]

I don’t for a moment believe what we’ve been told about Loras.

First, we were just told, not shown; that never works out in Martin — consider Manderly’s “execution” of Davos. That was a ruse all for Cersei’s benefit, or rather detriment. And I’m sure this one is, too.

Second, his injuries were reported by none other than the soon-to-be-“defective”/AWOL Admiral Aurane. This is the fellow that said that Cersei lost 1,000 of her youngest and best fighters at the storming of Dragonstone. More likely, Aurane has merely absconded with them.

Third, there is no way in hell that Loras could survive the injuries he’s reported to have taken. It simply is not possible. Indeed, he couldn’t even have incurred all his alleged injuries in the first place, because the earlier ones are too massive for him to have soldiered on to get the later ones.

So what in the world are Aurane and Loras really doing, that’s what I want to know. Does Loras have a new boyfriend? What about his Kingsguard oath? Is this all part of the Lady Olenna’s schemes? What a spider she is! I’m sure Mace doesn’t know, and it certainly appears that Queen Margaery doesn’t know, either. What grand and subtle plan would ahem, slow Loras from reporting in to his beloved sister?

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

I think he found dragon eggs in dragonstone, in fact I believe the prolgue will be about one of his soldiers dying trying to revive dragons or something like that

[Menos Grande]

Maybe the Tyrells Know some kind of magical healing... (R'hollor maybe?) Mag was pretty sure (or in denial) that Ser Loras could be saved, when Cersei told her about his state she just said "Dieing is not dead!"

[the Scorpion Knight]

I think loras in his recklessness triggered a curse thats transforming him into a living dragon gargoyle

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

I don't think he went to Dragonstone at all. Quite a bit of time had passed between the end of Feast for Crows and the end of Dance with Dragons. You would think you'd hear from another PoV that Dragonstone was captured at some point, but you don't. Even if this isn't the case, there is obviously something more to it.

[Casso King of Seals]

I can only hope Loras is still pristine. He's a great character who needs to have finally have a grand moment - even if he's immediately killed afterward.

[Brucolac]

but Margaery already choosed trial by judges of the Faith

As we saw in Tyrion's trial, you can change to trial by combat when things look to be going bad. It won't come to that though, she will won't be convicted by the testimony of one mad bard. The other accusers have changed their testimony and her not being a virgin isn't proof of infidelity or lechery. I think Loras will live but don't really know what his role is. I doubt it is as her defender in a trial, but I could see him being faced with a choice similar to Jaime's and killing someone he has sworn to protect.

[escargotini]

It seems to be implied that Loras is a younger version of Jaime, as well as quite bloodthirsty. I bet he's going to return horribly disfigured and kill Tommen before getting crushed by Mecha-Clegane.

[History of Westeros]

As we saw in Tyrion's trial, you can change to trial by combat when things look to be going bad. It won't come to that though, she will won't be convicted by the testimony of one mad bard. The other accusers have changed their testimony and her not being a virgin isn't proof of infidelity or lechery. I think Loras will live but don't really know what his role is. I doubt it is as her defender in a trial, but I could see him being faced with a choice similar to Jaime's and killing someone he has sworn to protect.

Good point, and I agree Loras is probably not dead and quite possibly not hurt badly or hurt at all.

However, Margaery is more trouble than you are making out. While it's true that not being a virgin is normally not a big deal, and you're right that such does not prove infidelity or the like, you have missed the big problem. She took a holy oath that she's a virgin. So that's what she can still be charged with even if the infidelity charge is dropped.

That said, the changing of testimonies by accusers should make it awfully hard to prove she didn't lose her maidenhead to a saddle. With Lannister power plummeting (Aegon, the death of Kevan and the shame walk of Cersei), I think the Tyrells will have an easy time manipulating this trial. Cersei may not have the means to pull strings in the other direction, and people will be less interested in working against them.

[Arkash]

I think the Tyrells are really in a good position to control KL in the beginning of Winds...

And with the Martell - Aegon alliance forming in the south, and knowing the hatred between Dorne and the Reach... with the presence of two Sand Snakes in the city, the army of Randyl Tarly, the fleet of the Redwynes, the forces of Mace Tyrell... and the Golden Company allied with Dorne's strenght on the other side... things might get explosive there...

Dont think Cersei will be left much to do in the upcoming times... and since I personally believe she's genuinly totally broken, well...

[the trees have eyes]

Loras is back in play. In ADWD Cersei tells the septas she will confess and on her way to the High Septon asks about Margaery: "Was there a trial?"

"Soon", said Septa Scholera, "but her brother-"

"Hush" Septa Unella turned to glare..."It is not for us to speak of such things"

How badly hurt he was and how well he has recovered remains to be seen. I don't see anyhting too machiavellian in events on Dragonstone: Loras led the assault in order to free up the Redwyne fleet to deal with the Ironborn, last seen occupying the Shields and ports on the Arbor and raiding at will up the Mander and along the coast.

It is plausible that he led a frontal assault, confident, arrogant really, in his own abillity, another of the knights of summer that Catelyn commented on to Matthis Rowan in ACOK. But why feign mortal injury? This is the trigger for Cersei to move on the Tyrells. The Redwyne fleet has sailed south, Mace is beseiging Storm's End, Randall Tarly is at Maidenpool and Garlan returned to The Reach after the wedding so with Margaery shorn of her protector in the Kingsgaurd she is vulnerable.

Why would Loras or the Tyrells trigger events that put Margaery and her cousins as well as the honour of their house and their political power at risk? I think Loras expected he would be unscathed and back protecting Margaery within a few days. And of course they don't yet realise Cersei's true malevolence.

I like the idea of Loras championing Margaery but agasint unGregor that could turn out very badly! I also like the notion of Loras as Valonqhar but that seems an outside bet. More likely unGregor will butcher all the Tyrells and the whole realm will see what Cersei has become. Cue the younger more beautiful queen - Dany the just :rolleyes: - to take from her all that she holds dear.

I think the stone dragons on Dragonstone are a red herring. We have known since AGOT that Dany is the one who woke the stone dragons and that she was born there - the place of smoke and salt. IMO Melisandre has simply got this wrong and it is entirely in keeping with GRRM's attitide to prophecy and the fallibility of characters to show us the consequences of players misinterpreting things and basing whole strategies on false premises. That is very much a true comment on the human condition.

Edit: How Melisandre reacts to news / proof of Dany and her dragons is something I have been waiting ages to see.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Come now. Do you really believe this story?

“How did he die?” she asked. “Who killed him?”

“No one man has that honor,” said Cersei. “Ser Loras took a quarrel through the thigh and another through the shoulder, but he fought on gallantly, though the blood was streaming from him. Later he suffered a mace blow that broke some ribs. After that... but no, I would spare you the worst of it.”

“Tell me,” said Margaery. “I command it.”

Command it?

Cersei paused a moment, then decided she would let that pass. “The defenders fell back to an inner keep once the curtain wall was taken. Loras led the attack there as well. He was doused with boiling oil.” Lady Alla turned white as chalk, and ran from the room. “The maesters are doing all they can, Lord Waters assures me, but I fear your brother is too badly burned.” Cersei took Margaery in her arms to comfort her. “He saved the realm.”

That’s far, far too fantastic to be believed. It’s impossible. Therefore, it didn’t all happen. What part of it did and what part didn’t, though, we don’t know. Perhaps none of it happened, perhaps some of it did, but certainly all of it did not.

[jarl the climber]

My veiw on this is that Ser Loras is a Kingsguard and his honor is prickly and if he swore to his King that he would lead the attack on Dragonstone he would. Whether or not his family was able to intervene somehow to save him probaly by having someone or several someones posing as him during the battle is possible but he would not have gone along with this willingly. Marge seemed very concerned about him leading the attack.

[MikeDC]

I like the idea of Loras championing Margaery but agasint unGregor that could turn out very badly! I also like the notion of Loras as Valonqhar but that seems an outside bet. More likely unGregor will butcher all the Tyrells and the whole realm will see what Cersei has become. Cue the younger more beautiful queen - Dany the just :rolleyes: - to take from her all that she holds dear.

Here's a question... how does Cersei last long enough for Dany to show up and be the more beautiful queen that takes away everything she holds dear? She already commands very little support, and if she kills off the Tyrells, she'll pretty much be at the mercy of which ever of Stannis/Bolton or Aegon shows up first.

[skins7778]

Loras as tbe Valanqhor is an interesting idea and it led me to another younger brother, Aegon. Supposedly he is the youngest of Rhaegars children with Elia but I dont see him being mentioned in the conversation unless Ive missed it.

[Faint]

That’s far, far too fantastic to be believed. It’s impossible. Therefore, it didn’t all happen. What part of it did and what part didn’t, though, we don’t know. Perhaps none of it happened, perhaps some of it did, but certainly all of it did not.

What makes all this doubly odd is that what did happen to him seems to be an open secret among the Faith (and, presumably, the Tyrells) but nobody else . . .

Grace is in good health,” said Septa Scolera, “and well protected, day and night. The queen is with him, always.”

I am the queen! She swallowed, smiled, and said, “That is good to know. Tommen loves her so. I never believed those terrible things that were being said of her.” Had Margaery Tyrell somehow wriggled free of the accusations of fornication, adultery, and high treason?

“Was a trial?” “Soon,” said Septa Scolera, “but her brother—”

“Hush.” Septa Unella turned to glare back over her shoulder at Scolera.

“You chatter too much, you foolish old woman. It is not for us to speak of such things.” Scolera lowered her head. “Pray forgive me.”

Even Kevan Lannister seems to be caught in the deception . . .

Kevan Lannister had seen Dragonstone with his own eyes. He doubted very much that Loras Tyrell had searched every inch of that ancient stronghold. The Valyrians had raised it, after all, and all their works stank of sorcery. And Ser Loras was young, prone to all the rash judgments of youth, and had been grievously wounded storming the castle besides.

---

A knight of the Kingsguard was always posted at its far end. Tonight the duty had fallen to Ser Meryn Trant. With Balon Swann hunting the rogue knight Darkstar down in Dorne, Loras Tyrell gravely wounded on Dragonstone, and Jaime vanished in the riverlands, only four of the White Swords remained in King’s Landing, and Ser Kevan had thrown Osmund Kettleblack (and his brother Osfryd) into the dungeon within hours of Cersei’s confessing that she had taken both men as lovers.

Which equals what, exactly?

My thinking is that the above information implies collusion by the Faith and Tyrells against the Lannisters . . . but how does Loras help the both of them?

The only thing that comes to mind is Loras serving as the Faith's champion against Cersei's champion in her trial by combat in return for fixing the verdict in Margaery's favor during her own trial.