What about Loras?

[jlk7e]

Nobody seems to be taking seriously the fact that Kevan seems to accept the basic truth of the story of what happened at Dragonstone. That means it isn't just a shaggy dog story Aurane told Cersei. It's one that is being presented as fact by Mace Tyrell and his allies, and accepted as such by Kevan Lannister. That doesn't mean it's not false, but it does mean that a lot of the hyperbolic claims that this is something "nobody else" besides Cersei has heard are not true. With Cersei gone, what motivation do the Tyrells have to lie about this?

[Lady Olenna]

I'm sure Lora's is alive.

As fanciful as it is I was hoping that Sandor would get to kill "Robert String" although supposedly the "hound" part of Sandor is dead. And how much of Robert Strong is actually Gregor is yet to be seen.

Loras killing Cersei would be ok. Although I'm hoping Cersei goes out with fireworks.

[Faint]

Nobody seems to be taking seriously the fact that Kevan seems to accept the basic truth of the story of what happened at Dragonstone. That means it isn't just a shaggy dog story Aurane told Cersei. It's one that is being presented as fact by Mace Tyrell and his allies, and accepted as such by Kevan Lannister. That doesn't mean it's not false, but it does mean that a lot of the hyperbolic claims that this is something "nobody else" besides Cersei has heard are not true. With Cersei gone, what motivation do the Tyrells have to lie about this?

I take that aspect of this issue quite seriously, which is why I've mentioned it so often before. But, as I've remarked previously, this appears to be more evidence of a Tyrell deception. Kevan seemed to be none the wiser about Loras's condition than Cersei is and only has a vague report of Loras being injured horribly on Dragonstone. And who is his source? The Tyrells? It's not as if the Lannisters have substantial resources in or around King's Landing at this point.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I wonder how many chapters Cersei will have in the next book. She was quite central in A Feast for Crows and given the upcoming trial I think its fairly certain she'll have a couple of chapters.

Ser Kevan has no choice but to believe the reports hes getting about Loras. He hasn't been at Storms End at all. And he like Cersei is getting information from the same sources.

Still can't believe Kevan died just like that at the end of ADWD lol....dude couldn't catch a break for the last 3 novels....

[Faint]

I wonder how many chapters Cersei will have in the next book. She was quite central in A Feast for Crows and given the upcoming trial I think its fairly certain she'll have a couple of chapters.

Oh, I think she'll have many more than that. I think she's good for 6 to 8 chapters, especially given her narrative isolation (i.e., she's the only the POV in King's Landing right now).

[LifeRuiner]

She could not know. Or she could be, you know, faking it. She cried enough when Joffrey died, despite very possibly being the actual poisoner.

If I slipped poison into someone's cup, I would probably cry hysterically as well if this person was dying a gruesome death practically on top of me. I would not have to fake it. It would be traumatic and stressful for anyone who is not a sociopath. Even for murderers, there are shades of grey.

In any case, Lady Olenna is a more likely poisoner as she was the one who took the crystals from Sansa's hairnet. There was no need for the poison to change hands.

[LifeRuiner]

Nobody seems to be taking seriously the fact that Kevan seems to accept the basic truth of the story of what happened at Dragonstone. That means it isn't just a shaggy dog story Aurane told Cersei. It's one that is being presented as fact by Mace Tyrell and his allies, and accepted as such by Kevan Lannister. That doesn't mean it's not false, but it does mean that a lot of the hyperbolic claims that this is something "nobody else" besides Cersei has heard are not true. With Cersei gone, what motivation do the Tyrells have to lie about this?

I agree. You can't fudge the taking of Dragonstone. It is not a lonely onion knight's head. By then, King's Landing would have been alight with gossip, or soon would be. It is not humanly possible for the Tyrells to vacuum-seal KL from all information. They are not the only people who have their people everywhere. Besides, the Tyrells would then soon have some interesting explaining to do, if not to Cersei then to King Tommen and most importantly, to general public whose good opinion they work hard to keep. A plan that is not blame proof is not in their MO.

I don't even think that there was a plan. Loras volunteered on the spur-of-the moment to save his family's lands or die trying in eternal glory, which is more in character for him than a large scale deceit. Remember, he is 'an oaf' and not part of the plotting circle of two (Lady Olenna and Margaery).

The fall of the Dragonstone is pretty much the only fact that we have.

As Margaery's distress seems genuine and as Loras would not have left his sister in danger like that, I also believe that Loras is injured.

[LifeRuiner]

snip

I really, really like your ideas on Aurane's agenda and actions. I still think another possibility is that he might have sailed to Mereen but your theory ties up with Loras' missing in action so elegantly.

Loras' injuries could have absolutely come after the battle, from what was found under the Dragonstone in these mining operations (an obsidian mine accident, Valaryan artefacts, something dragon-related). Let's not forget that Dragonstone has magic in its walls, who knows what else the castle has been hiding.

[Finlay]

I hope to see Cersai dead by the hands of Sansa

[QuaitheTheShadow]

I hope to see Cersai dead by the hands of Sansa

I tend to believe the valonquar who strangles her will be Jamie.

Though that may be hard with only one hand.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

In any case, Lady Olenna is a more likely poisoner as she was the one who took the crystals from Sansa's hairnet. There was no need for the poison to change hands.

I don't dispute that Olenna is the one who nicked the poison from the hair net. But I think Margaery should at least be considered as a candidate for who actually slipped the poison in. Namely because, Margaery had the access to the actual cup that Olenna wouldn't have had, and if anyone other than Margaery actually slipped the poison, there would always be a risk, no matter how slight, that Margaery herself would accidentally ingest it, as they were drinking from the same cup. The only guarantee that 1. the poison would reach Joffrey's goblet without raising any suspicions and 2. Margaery herself would not be poisoned is if Margaery herself did the final deed.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Assuming he was horribly burned - Loras will become Westeros's answer to Darth Vader!

[Annikina]

I can only hope Loras is still pristine. He's a great character who needs to have finally have a grand moment - even if he's immediately killed afterward.

I agree with you, and if he does come back, he will surely be killed shortly afterwards (like GRRM killed Oberyn Martell just when he made his triumphant appearance. doh!)

[Raerin]

As far as I am concerned, Aurane Waters was a bastard of Lord Velaryon. And the House of Velaryon was one of the noble houses most devoted to Stannis. It is probable that Aurane secretly supported Stannis.

What bothers me is that Aurane supposely lost 1000 best soldiers before he deserted. It could mean that someone took them being in a rush and having no time to gather forces. It might be Loras, in fact. But the question is why he was in a hurry.

[aryagonnakill]

One problem I have with this is why would Ser Loras fight UnGregor with swords when his brother is the better swordsmen? Assuming margaery needs a knight of the kingsgaurd to champion her in combat then loras makes some sense, but margaery isnt in any real danger from her trial as the tyrells have 30k men in the city. If a tyrell is going to fight ungregor it would be loras's brother who wore renly's armor. Perhaps that same brother wore Loras's armor when he took dragonstone?

[Arkash]

Yeah, maybe Garlan Tyrell will be the one to defeat Robert Strong... or be defeated by him...

[TheCrannogman]

Pretty easy to make anyone with long brown hair look like Loras after you dump boiling oil on them. Mace could definitely be pulling one on the Lannisters ala Theon Greyjoy.

[Whatisdeadmayneverdie]

Oh I think he'll be back. His only flaw was he was to vain. Now that he probably doesn't have the good looks he once had, there's a good chance of a hero in the making. I mean come on the Tyrells need at least one hero by the end of the series.

[Tini]

I am more interested in how he will react to finding out that he was not admired so much for his jousting but for his looks.

[Teh Queen's Hand]

IIn any case, Lady Olenna is a more likely poisoner as she was the one who took the crystals from Sansa's hairnet. There was no need for the poison to change hands.

I have to disagree a bit there, Maergery had better access to the cup, due to the fact that she was also drinking from it. Plus she would need to know when to stop drinking from it, the best way being for her to put the poison in herself.