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What about Loras?


Nfestid

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Loras Tyrell has been largely forgotten and presumed dead because of the battle he lead at Dragonstone.

Ceresei does not know about his whereabouts, and indeed almost no one other than the Tyrells are likely to know where he is right about now.

Many people have presumed that he will live, but what will his purpose be? How will he advance the plot?

I think that his role is to defeat Robert Strong A.K.A. Ser Gregor during ceresei's trial. Loras defeated Gregor at the tourney of the hand that was held for Ned and I hope that he can do it again so we get to watch Ceresei die, also we get to read about another epic sword battle if I am correct.

thoughts?

-Nfestid

A joust and a fight aren't nearly the same thing. Loras is a great jouster but an average swordsman, i don't think he even has a tiny chance to beat Robert Strong. The only people i see that would be able to beat him are Sandor, Barristan and well maybe Garlan but we son't know how much he's good and i'm pretty sure he's not Gregor level. Out of these, the only one i can see fighting RS is Sandor. But i think that someone else will fight him and that he'll get killed and Cersei will win her trial.

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I don't get many of the Loras not hurt plots. I do think his injuries are severely exaggerated from Cersie to Margery though.



The Champion of the faith does not strike me as correct either. I can't see the faith making the bargain that would need to line up for that to all play out.



Loras vs Stong (Un-Gregor) would be the nice redemption story for Loras after Gregor embarrasses him during the tourney for Ned. The one I like better has to pull from the other theories of the Grave-digger being Sandor. Sandor could have healed from his wounds by this time, and with the faith militant you need leaders. Sandor was a KG and did lead a vanguard before. Also, if you saw the size of Strong wouldn't you start looking for the biggest guy you had available to match him? Especially after watching and incredibly fast smaller fighter with a spear get killed by the mountain. I think most would be betting size vs size right now.


It seems somewhat happy-ending-ish (not likely) that Sandor would have the chance to kill Gregor/Strong, and ruin the Lannister family at once if he was healed up enough to fight for the faith. Anything remotely close to a nice little happy ending I always write off as not possible, but Tyrion did get to kill his father and see if he shits gold after Joffery was finally killed off. So there are chances at happy endings if people die I guess.



As for Loras, I think he was wounded storming in like an arrogant idiot, but I think his wounds were exaggerated. If he is part of some grand scheme I will be surprised.



I am obviously biased in wanting the Hound to kill his brother. He was a great character and I don't want to accept that he was simply found and died and buried. It all goes back to Davos's head and nubby fingers, or the Stark boys burned. If you are not executed in front of the masses I can't believe you are dead in this world.


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Loras' injuries at Dragonstone were worse than everyone imagined, so they had to amputate his entire body. In fact, his head was sewn onto Gregor Clegane's corpse in order to keep it alive. Now that Cersei is going to name Robert Strong as her champion, and the faith is going to name Loras, Robert Strong will have to fight a trial by combat...against himself. It'll be epic, just like Jim Carey in Me, Myself, and Irene. The results will be inconclusive, though, so Cersei will get off on a technicality. Nonetheless, faceless Arya, wearing the face of Syrio Forel, will warg into Tommen's kitties and maul Cersei to death in her sleep.

There is so much in here that I like I cant pick what is best.

Strong decapitates himself (itself) to win/lose and causes a draw

Thank you for this post. :bowdown:

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Cant think where to post this so it can go here. For those who think the Hound could be the Faith's champion, isn't he himself guilty of crimes? King's Landing believe him guilty of the brutality at Saltpans (although Elder Brother could disprove that obviously) but he was certainly guilty of desertion. Isn't that punishable by death?

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Cant think where to post this so it can go here. For those who think the Hound could be the Faith's champion, isn't he himself guilty of crimes? King's Landing believe him guilty of the brutality at Saltpans (although Elder Brother could disprove that obviously) but he was certainly guilty of desertion. Isn't that punishable by death?

I was thinking about that before. The Salt-Pans incident they would know is false through the Elder Brother, like you said, but his previous crimes could have died with the Hound.

The Elder Brother says that the Hound is dead, Sandor is at peace. (I know it is not exact, but close enough for this). There was a clear distinction in how he referred to the persona and the man. Maybe the Faith forgave him in return for his service. There might be a penance process he has been going through as the Grave-Digger.

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I am obviously biased in wanting the Hound to kill his brother. He was a great character and I don't want to accept that he was simply found and died and buried. It all goes back to Davos's head and nubby fingers, or the Stark boys burned. If you are not executed in front of the masses I can't believe you are dead in this world.

The last time somebody fought the Mountain in a Trial by Combat for purposes of revenge, it didn't turn out so well for the guy. I do agree that Sandor emerging as a Champion of the Faith to finally end his brother would be a highly dramatic moment. However, Sandor Clegane, if alive, is effectively a "broken man." The trauma of fighting surrounded by fire on the Blackwater is the battle that "broke him." As the Eldest Brother said, it wasn't a desire to make the world a better place, but hatred that motivated Sandor. And I think Martin views hatred as an ultimately destructive end. So, Martin forgoes the dramatic intentionally to give a character a "good ending," albeit one readers might be tempted to find unsatisfying.

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I was thinking about that before. The Salt-Pans incident they would know is false through the Elder Brother, like you said, but his previous crimes could have died with the Hound.

The Elder Brother says that the Hound is dead, Sandor is at peace. (I know it is not exact, but close enough for this). There was a clear distinction in how he referred to the persona and the man. Maybe the Faith forgave him in return for his service. There might be a penance process he has been going through as the Grave-Digger.

I'm sure what remains of Lannister power in Kings Landing could kick up a stink if that happens though. His crimes were desertion which endangered the King, Cersei's son. I doubt they would allow himbto fight without raising some objection. I personally suapect Ser Theodan the True or Lancel will be the Faith's Champion
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Cant think where to post this so it can go here. For those who think the Hound could be the Faith's champion, isn't he himself guilty of crimes? King's Landing believe him guilty of the brutality at Saltpans (although Elder Brother could disprove that obviously) but he was certainly guilty of desertion. Isn't that punishable by death?

I'm sure what remains of Lannister power in Kings Landing could kick up a stink if that happens though. His crimes were desertion which endangered the King, Cersei's son. I doubt they would allow himbto fight without raising some objection. I personally suapect Ser Theodan the True or Lancel will be the Faith's Champion

If Sandor fought to prove Cersei guilty and won, then he would not have been guilty of desertion because the Lannister treason will be the story now and you can't get accused of deserting a traitor.

What Lannister power in Kings Landing?

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If Sandor fought to prove Cersei guilty and won, then he would not have been guilty of desertion because the Lannister treason will be the story now and you can't get accused of deserting a traitor.

What Lannister power in Kings Landing?

The point still stands though, until Sandor "won" he would still be considered a traitor. Obviously its hypocritical for Sandor.not.to fight when, ah, "Robert Strong" will be fighting, but its hardly going to go smoothly if he fights for the Faith
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The last time somebody fought the Mountain in a Trial by Combat for purposes of revenge, it didn't turn out so well for the guy. I do agree that Sandor emerging as a Champion of the Faith to finally end his brother would be a highly dramatic moment. However, Sandor Clegane, if alive, is effectively a "broken man." The trauma of fighting surrounded by fire on the Blackwater is the battle that "broke him." As the Eldest Brother said, it wasn't a desire to make the world a better place, but hatred that motivated Sandor. And I think Martin views hatred as an ultimately destructive end. So, Martin forgoes the dramatic intentionally to give a character a "good ending," albeit one readers might be tempted to find unsatisfying.

It didn't work out so well the last time, but one fought for someone else and one would be fighting for himself. A broken man who was driven by hate can probably never find peace until he can let go of hate. I think it is a long shot it would happen. Plus, to Sandor his brother is dead and his head was sent off. What hate does he have left to drive him?

If Sandor was going to fight I would see him being chosen purely for his size when the Faith saw Un-Gregor (Strong) chosen by Cersei. Sandor fighting not knowing the opponent was an empty shell of his brother would still be bittersweet if he won. He would slay Strong, or possibly expose he is not human, but he still wouldn't get to kill his one tormentor through life since he was already dead. That is the only way I see it happening really. Sandor chosen for his size after seeing Strong and the Faith needing a Champion. Sandor could still be driven by hate to fight, I am sure this is very little Love for the Lannisters. The bittersweet killing of Gregor, but not really getting to kill Gregor.

I agree with your point about GRRM using hate as a destructive force and if Sandor is the Grave-Digger he was given a good ending. I would even say it is a some-what satisfying ending since he fought so hard for so long and cared so little for Gods that he could finish life in peace.

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The point still stands though, until Sandor "won" he would still be considered a traitor. Obviously its hypocritical for Sandor.not.to fight when, ah, "Robert Strong" will be fighting, but its hardly going to go smoothly if he fights for the Faith

I see what you mean about people objecting, I just think Sandor could simply say I demand a trial by combat, and then the trial would be a 2 for 1.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The question I have, is could Loras be faking his own demise in order to shift sides to Stannis? Loras would be incredibly unlikely to support Stannis' claim to the Iron Throne. However, Loras would certainly have discovered the dragon glass mining operation during his assault. I'd imagine after that Loras would discover the purpose behind the dragonglass operation (the war with the Others). Could Loras' commitments to chivarily and knighthood idealism lead him to 'change sides' in order to fight the greater enemy?


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I think Loras will die. I think the events in Dragonstone were relayed factually and GRRM hasn't killed him yet because he deserves a POV death and there wasn't a POV character on Dragonstone.

OTOH, if the events were reported to fact, and he lives and regains strenth, he might forego a change from the beautiful knight of flowers to the dreaded knight of horrors to lead the van.

Remember, with good ole Gregor gone (or taken the white), the job is still vacant.

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