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WolveseatDragons

What happens when Arya finds out her imposter is married to Ramsay?

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Nice catch. It goes hand in hand with both Sansa and Arya losing their identities and posing as someone else. By AFFC/ADWD they are both pretty successful at this. It also means that they are learning skills the traditionally minded Ned and Cat did not possess. Arya and Sansa are being prepared for a crueller world in a way.

I really want them to end up ruling Winterfell together while waiting for Rickon to come of age. The she-wolves of Winterfell. :) I think they'd make an amazing team, sort of good cop (Sansa) - bad cop (Arya).

Except that I think a few -- and maybe more -- people in the Vale have figured out who Alayne is, or at least have their suspicions. Top candidates: Randa Royce and Ser Shadrich. Randa, good! (maybe); Shadrich, bad!

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I don't think she ever grasped the conversation where they talked about the other sister. There was a lot going on at the time and she never thought back to it after her basically dismissing it as misinformation. It just seems odd that she would have so many other thoughts about what she wanted to do when she was in Braavos and that never came up again unless she just didn't understand it. I just don't see someone like Arya thinking"Oh well, someone took my identity and is using it to justify ending the reign of my family and House after thousands of years. Well, let me get back to being a FM."

I do think the chances she meets up with Massey and/or "fake Arya" are good and that is the catalyst for her return.

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Except that I think a few -- and maybe more -- people in the Vale have figured out who Alayne is, or at least have their suspicions. Top candidates: Randa Royce and Ser Shadrich. Randa, good! (maybe); Shadrich, bad!

Are you sure? Randa herself tells Alayne that she "shan't bother with that because they are bastard breasts" when she compares her ample bosom to Alayne's. And that's *after* Alayne mentions Jon Snow. So I don't know. :)

As for Shadrich...he has never actually seen Sansa, and Alayne has the wrong hair colour. She even fooled Bronze Yohn Royce up close, and he's seen her twice before, once in Winterfell and once at the Hand's tourney.

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One thing to remember. There is a huge difference between Arya wanting to rule or be a Lady and Arya standing by while her family is lost forever. Something else interesting has to happen with Arya, of course it would also be funny if she got sent to Mereen to kill Dany.

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Nice catch. It goes hand in hand with both Sansa and Arya losing their identities and posing as someone else. By AFFC/ADWD they are both pretty successful at this. It also means that they are learning skills the traditionally minded Ned and Cat did not possess. Arya and Sansa are being prepared for a crueller world in a way.

I really want them to end up ruling Winterfell together while waiting for Rickon to come of age. The she-wolves of Winterfell. :) I think they'd make an amazing team, sort of good cop (Sansa) - bad cop (Arya).

I want to see Arya and Euron ruling westeros together. I wouldn't mind seeing Arya and Euron feeding Dany to Drogon. But first, I'd like so see Sansa dead and Cersei mounting her head above the Red Keep. They can give Winterfell to Asha.

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I don't see her leaving the FM until after they give her an assignment. It would be a waste if she just spent two books in Braavos and has nothing to show for it. I could definitely see her

killing Jeyne, for assuming her identity,

but I doubt that will get her hopping on a ship anywhere.

The don't want her to lose her identity. They want to not be able to tell whether she's lying or not.

They do. Lying is part of that but it's also things like Arya's mannerisms -- biting her lip, her willfulness, etc -- that they want her to be rid of. After all, her wants and needs only get in the way of her being completely servile to them. This will all help her better blend into the roles they give her.

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Are you sure? Randa herself tells Alayne that she "shan't bother with that because they are bastard breasts" when she compares her ample bosom to Alayne's. And that's *after* Alayne mentions Jon Snow. So I don't know. :)

As for Shadrich...he has never actually seen Sansa, and Alayne has the wrong hair colour. She even fooled Bronze Yohn Royce up close, and he's seen her twice before, once in Winterfell and once at the Hand's tourney.

Except that I think a few -- and maybe more -- people in the Vale have figured out who Alayne is, or at least have their suspicions. Top candidates: Randa Royce and Ser Shadrich. Randa, good! (maybe); Shadrich, bad!

Nah.... there's no evidence. I find it unreasonable that a world can exist where lords are rallied to the cause of rescuing fake Arya in the North while lords also recognize real Sansa, with her hair dyed, whom they've only seen maybe once or twice.

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I think it would be a really good twist

if Arya kills Jeyne and replaces her, so we have Arya pretending to be Jeyne, pretending to be Arya. The trouble is, Arya knows Jeyne, so this would be breaking of FM rules. Of course, it doesn't have to matter if Arya goes renegade.

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I don't see her leaving the FM until after they give her an assignment. It would be a waste if she just spent two books in Braavos and has nothing to show for it. I could definitely see her

killing Jeyne, for assuming her identity,

but I doubt that will get her hopping on a ship anywhere.

They do. Lying is part of that but it's also things like Arya's mannerisms -- biting her lip, her willfulness, etc -- that they want her to be rid of. After all, her wants and needs only get in the way of her being completely servile to them. This will all help her better blend into the roles they give her.

But that assumes they want her to be completely servile to them in the first place. Those things give away her disguise. That's why they want her to get rid of them. It would be preferable for their purposes, if she could keep her identity entirely intact and they were not able to tell the difference.

That they are teaching the art of deception. Not training Unsullied.

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Are you sure? Randa herself tells Alayne that she "shan't bother with that because they are bastard breasts" when she compares her ample bosom to Alayne's. And that's after Alayne mentions Jon Snow. So I don't know. :)

As for Shadrich...he has never actually seen Sansa, and Alayne has the wrong hair colour. She even fooled Bronze Yohn Royce up close, and he's seen her twice before.

Ah, but were they fooled? Randa, it is said, is clever, and after she gives Alayne the news about "some bastard of Eddard Stark" becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch -- to which Alayne responds "Jon Snow?" -- it's smarter of her to redirect the conversation to put Alayne at her ease. As you noticed, it was Bronze Yohn Royce who thought Alayne looked familiar, and now it's Randa Royce who made the trip up the mountain only to go down again and who is chatting up Alayne and asking her to share her bed and saying that she'll get out all of her secrets yadda yadda.

Compare Alayne's reaction to the mention of "Eddard Stark's bastard" to Sandor's reaction to the mention of "the sister," that LLF quoted above.

Huh, another clue, sort of -- Randa loves randy gossip (subtle naming there, GRRM) and so I'm sure she would have savored the news that the Imp hadn't bedded his Stark bride. And here we have her asking Alayne question full of sexual innuendo, and Alayne blushing like a, um, virgin. Of course, I am looking for clues -- but then, so is everyone else.

And Ser Shadrich is smarter than he looks. Rather than wander the Riverlands with Brienne he went straight to the Vale to look for Sansa on the theory that Sansa would seek refuge with her powerful aunt. (You have to wonder why Cersei didn't send someone to the Vale to look for her too, although if she sent the Kettleblacks her efforts would have been in vain.) Then he gets himself hired by LF, where he's conveniently close to a very beautiful and courteous maid of about three and ten who just appeared out of nowhere.

Things that make you go hmmmn.

And I don't mean to turn this into another Sansa thread but I'm very fond of my theory that Sansa has been discovered. I had a lengthy debate about it with Lord Littlefinger's Lash elsewhere -- the Littlefinger's Plans for Sansa thread, I think -- so we could take a discussion over there, if you wish.

I want to see Arya and Euron ruling westeros together. I wouldn't mind seeing Arya and Euron feeding Dany to Drogon. But first, I'd like so see Sansa dead and Cersei mounting her head above the Red Keep. They can give Winterfell to Asha.

ROTF -- and people call ME blood thirsty! Well, Asha can have Winterfell if she kills all the Freys. All. Of. Them.

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Ah, but were they fooled? Randa, it is said, is clever, and after she gives Alayne the news about "some bastard of Eddard Stark" becoming Lord Commander of the Night's Watch -- to which Alayne responds "Jon Snow?" -- it's smarter of her to redirect the conversation to put Alayne at her ease. As you noticed, it was Bronze Yohn Royce who thought Alayne looked familiar, and now it's Randa Royce who made the trip up the mountain only to go down again and who is chatting up Alayne and asking her to share her bed and saying that she'll get out all of her secrets yadda yadda.

Randa Royce is Nestor Royce's daughter, of the Royces who are in direct competition with Bronze Yohn Royce. Randa and Nestor have not met Sansa before and have, as far as we know as a lesser branch of the House, less involvement in politics all together.

Shadrich hasn't met Sansa so what he's looking for is a maid of three and ten with auburn hair, same as Brienne. He may suspect Alayne, but she has given people the wrong age, she has the wrong hair colour and the first she does when encountering Shadrich and the other hedge knights is flirt. Which is totally not something the old Sansa Stark would do. Plus she also shows familiarity with Littlefinger as her father in that scene and Sansa is not exactly known for her cleverness and deception in Kings Landing.

Sure, if you wish we can continue in the other thread. :) I can crosspost this.

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But that assumes they want her to be completely servile to them in the first place. Those things give away her disguise. That's why they want her to get rid of them. It would be preferable for their purposes, if she could keep her identity entirely intact and they were not able to tell the difference.

No. Again, their wants and goals don't matter, only the goals of the organization. And those things are all part of her identity, so yes, they want her to get rid of them. Now of course this is all part of an outward appearance we're talking about here. Unless she suffers a massive head wound, or ingests some serious mind altering drugs, she's not going to forget who she was.

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But why would Arya destroy the group the brought down the vast slaving empire of Valyria? The organization that give Bravos the ability to punch well above its weight as they win wars against Pentos, Volantis and beat back the last vestiges of the Ancien Régime?

do you really think the FM will let her go?

and what if the doom of valyriawas a big coincidence

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do you really think the FM will let her go?

No but she will be released into the world once they give her an assignment.

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No but she will be released into the world once they give her an assignment.

Even while she refuses to throw away Needle and her Stark identity?

I'm more inclined to think she will ditch the organization over being sent on a mission for them.

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No. Again, their wants and goals don't matter, only the goals of the organization.

yeah when i say "they" i mean the organization.

And those things are all part of her identity, so yes, they want her to get rid of them. Now of course this is all part of an outward appearance we're talking about here.
They are not. No more than when she was called Weasel or Arry. Did Yoren change her identity by cutting her hair?

Unless she suffers a massive head wound, or ingests some serious mind altering drugs, she's not going to forget who she was
Who she is.

sometimes it seemed to her that the Lord Protector was two people as well. He was Petyr, her protector, warm and funny and gentle... but he was also Littlefinger, the lord she’d known at King’s Landing, smiling slyly and stroking his beard as he whispered in Queen Cersei’s ear. And Littlefinger was no friend of hers. When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not Littlefinger. When the Lannisters wed her to Tyrion against her will, Ser Garlan the Gallant gave her comfort, not Littlefinger. Littlefinger never lifted so much as his little finger for her.

Except to get me out. He did that for me. I thought it was Ser Dontos, my poor old drunken Florian,
but it was Petyr all the while. Littlefinger was only a mask he had to wear.

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Sure, if you wish we can continue in the other thread. :) I can crosspost this.

Let's do that.

Regarding the Faceless Men -- The Waif hasn't forgotten who she is. Of course, she's not a field agent or whatever you want to call them, but if brainwashing was part of the FM initiation then the Waif would be brainwashed too.

The FM really value knowledge and connections and I think that "Arya of House Stark" is valuable to them as herself.

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'Ser Gregor, Dunsen, Raff the sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, Ramsay Snow, valar morghulis.'

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Let's do that.

Regarding the Faceless Men -- The Waif hasn't forgotten who she is. Of course, she's not a field agent or whatever you want to call them, but if brainwashing was part of the FM initiation then the Waif would be brainwashed too.

The FM really value knowledge and connections and I think that "Arya of House Stark" is valuable to them as herself.

Wait a minute. How do you know that she's not a field agent? Why the fuck is she learning the common tongue? Why is she taught the same techniques of deception?

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