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[Book Spoilers] EP 204 Discussion

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Arya as Tywin's cupbearer works IMO. It seems more convincing to me that a nobleman like Tywin would protect a girl from all the terrible men around her, rather than someone as creepy as Bolton or Weeze offering that protection. Will be interesting to see who Arya has Jaqen kill instead of Weeze though.

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Xaro: I invoke sumai!

Merchant: The fuck you talking about

Xaro: No clue. But I'm going to cut my hand now and we'll let Dany in so she can start doing something this season

Merchant: K

:lol: hah.

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Tywin does show up at Harrenhal in the books as well. At that point, Arya is helping out that crazy Weese character, who is probably cut from the show. Having her be the cupbearer for Tywin makes sense, and I am definitely pumped to see more Arya and Tywin!

Roose shows up to Harrenhal and takes it over after Tywin leaves to fight in Riverrun and eventually the Blackwater. So Roose will probably still show there, have Lorch killed, and Arya will become his cupbearer as well, like she was in the novel. Just my guess though.

Edited by Davos55

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I'm a little annoyed that some people think that people didn't like the Joffery scene because it was disturbing. I for one appreciate actors, shows, movies what have you that can make you feel uncomfortable. It's just that it was so fricken long and redundant that it just felt like a massive waste of time. Same with the Catelyn/LF scene. It was just drawn out. I've already made it clear that I'm not a complete stickler when it comes to how the show adapts the books but when it feels like something is a massive waste of precious time (only 50 minute episodes and there are only 10 of them) I think the show deserves the criticism for changing or adding things that weren't in the book.

Also I'm excited to see Williams and Dance interact next week. They'r both brilliant.

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I disliked the Joffrey scene not because it "went too far" (well, it can be awkward to watch if you're sitting with a bunch of people), but because it was stupid and too long. JOFFREY IS EVUL. We get it!

Edited by vanille

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Yes, a lot of the delicious subtext falls by the wayside, but I think the compressions and simplifications (especially for Arya, Stannis and Robb) have been done very efficiently. Props from this one.

The LF/Cat interaction gives viewers a chance to suss out who's behind the Dontos escape plan. That quick cut to the Hound during Sansa's beating makes me think they'll play up that subplot in the next few episodes, which will be interesting; Tyrion/Meryn was golden.

Arya's scenes were fantastic. Tywin Lannister, y u so charismatic?? The BWB namedrop as nice; no doubt Arya will overhear a lot more about them at Tywin's elbow.

Loved the Baratheon parley in the books, enjoyed it here. "Is he a ham?" makes me think certain ADWD theories are right on the money. And Stannis my one true king just for the "fewer" comment. :bowdown:

ETA: Roose Bolton and the Tickler this week; the banality of evil indeed :D

I hope you’re right on that, but what I’m really starting to be afraid of, is that HBO is going to soften the Hound WAY too much. He’s not supposed to only be this tortured guard that pity Sansa and wants to help her, he should also have those harsh interactions with her where he questions ALL of her beliefs and actions, and yes, he should also scare her.

Without this ambivalence and, I agree, totally weird dynamic between him and Sansa, their relation looses a lot of its interest.

Some people really don’t like it as they see it as unhealthy and it’s ok since there are so many different stuffs going on in these books; we all have some things we like and some we don’t, but Sandor’s not that nice ways are a big part of his interest. Now, if he’s just that rejected guy with a heart of gold that is truly one of the good guys in a too obvious way, I think that HBO is just not getting it.

The reason why Sandor is so captivating is that he has those huge mood switches. At first, you’re never completely sure how to classify him. We didn’t get that psycho factor he is supposed to have yet, and that is disappointing to me since this is what makes him so appealing to me as a character… you have to get that he is totally TORTURED!!! Where is his rage??

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Xaro: I invoke sumai!

Merchant: The fuck you talking about

Xaro: No clue. But I'm going to cut my hand now and we'll let Dany in so she can start doing something this season

Merchant: K

LOL, awesome, thanks for clarification, I really didn't get that whole thing... :lol:

Edited by Orestes

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I did like how the episode started with two soldiers debating who was the better fighter...sounds like something from this forum :D

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Tyrion/Bronn/Lancel scenes were on point. Just like i had imagined them.

The battle- i get that they cut it for budget reasons but i really hope we see a battle happening at some point

Jeyne- or just some random girl? I think the Frey's would be a little more infuriated if he left the alter for a commoner and a foreigner.

Grey wind was awesome for that second we saw him

Arya and co. are in an exciting place now, hope to see more.

I liked the LF scene with Cat. I think he became stupid for a moment because he had hoped there was a flicker of a chance for them to be together now that Brandon and Eddard were both gone.

Stannis/Mellisandre/Davos- great

Joff and the whores- i get that he did it for Tyrion interfering in the throne room.

Roose was great, the mountain, i cannot judge since i have barely seen him

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I'm a little annoyed that some people think that people didn't like the Joffery scene because it was disturbing. I for one appreciate actors, shows, movies what have you that can make you feel uncomfortable. It's just that it was so fricken long and redundant that it just felt like a massive waste of time. Same with the Catelyn/LF scene. It was just drawn out. I've already made it clear that I'm not a complete stickler when it comes to how the show adapts the books but when it feels like something is a massive waste of precious time (only 50 minute episodes and there are only 10 of them) I think the show deserves the criticism for changing or adding things that weren't in the book.

Also I'm excited to see Williams and Dance interact next week. They'r both brilliant.

That's also why I did not like it. They keep skipping important things in the books, only to add pointless made up scenes, that were never in the books.

Side note to everybody.

Are we ever going to actually get to see a fighting scene with Robb and the Northern army? I mean I understand the bugetory and time reasons, I just think we should have gotten to see Robb's initial charge, and then go to a black out, and pick up after the battle. At the very least they could have given us a little more of a taste with Grey Wind. I mean it would have only taken like 10 seconds to show Grey Wind tearing those guys up. It just seemed a little cheep to me, to spend all this time with these two guards, hearing their conversation and all, building up the suspense, when we all know Grey Wind is about to tear these guys up, only to show him snarling, and then they switch to Robb and we hear the carnage. Would it really be to much more to show Grey Wind ripping off the farting guys arm? Or like I said before, it would have been so cool to see Robb charging down in the front line, and letting us see him crash through Stafford's army, and then blackout to the end of the battle.

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Harrenhall in the opening credits looked amazing. The castle itself...I envisioned something with more of a Soviet, Eastern Bloc feel to it- big, gray, big, empty, and big. It looked decent but I couldn't help but get a spooky Halloween graveyard vibe. I was half expecting jack-o-lanterns and boiling cauldrons.

Edited by salt

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Are we ever going to actually get to see a fighting scene with Robb and the Northern army? I mean I understand the bugetory and time reasons, I just think we should have gotten to see Robb's initial charge, and then go to a black out, and pick up after the battle.

On the one hand you say you understand time and budget reasons, then you immediately suggest something that would have taken time and a lot of budget for CGI (Grey Wind)! Frankly, one battle is very much like another on land, and you don't need to show them all - it can be much more effective to just know they occurred and hear / see the aftermath. Even in the books we hear about Robb's battles rather than see them. I would much rather have one big critical battle sequence done really well (Blackwater) than see a few ordinary fights just because people like Robb action scenes.

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Dont have much time, so a really quick review:

Loved the Joffrey scene with the prostitutes: so visceral, amazingly directed and written, so creepy... waw, I seldom feel ill at ease in front of images, but there... wow...

Harrenhal: Loved it too. Really clever modifications... well, hope we'll have more of the Mountain later, couldnt judge him by what we had.

I also hope the Tickler had mentionned Beric Dondarrion but well... glad the torture isnt about Gendry and we heard the line "Is there gold ?". The actor for the Tickler is well chosen.

The entry to Qarth: really funny, I enjoyed it a lot.

Well, all in all, there is still a problem of rythm in this episode, a problem that there wasnt last week, the rythm is bad in this episode, the main problem of it for me.

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204 had by far the most deviation from the books up to this point. I expect that in the future we will look back to it as the moment where the two narratives let go of each other, albeit following generally similar paths later.

For the most part it worked, making the plot that much simpler, easier to follow and less ambiguous.

Tywin subbing for Roose at Harrenhal was a good idea. It makes good use of the actors and serves much the same purpose.

They seem to be going out of their way to avoid giving the appearance that Joffrey, or even Stannis, have any redeeming qualities whatsoever. As the emphatic disliker of Stannis that I am, I appreciate the effort. The TV show is leaving no margin for appeals that he did not know what would happen to Renly. On the down side, it is leaving no room for Edric Storm either :(

Tyrion keeps having the best lines. Clarifying the meaning of a threat and turning Lancel to his service were marvelous scenes, very well handled.

I'm uncertain about the plot role of the Volantese girl. She is apparently Jeyne Westerling plus something else. Why Volantis? Is she being merged with Maggie from Cersei's POV chapters, perhaps? That will have some plot impact later on, albeit nothing major.

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And LuisDantas since you're happy with the Stannis portrayal, you can imagine how I feel about it :D.

I'm also nervous about the "Jeyne" storyline. It looks like she won't be a noblewoman, and while that might help to explain the eventual Frey outrage, if they do indeed go with a "Prince and the peasant girl" type storyline its going to feel too Disney to me.

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And LuisDantas since you're happy with the Stannis portrayal, you can imagine how I feel about it :D.

I'm also nervous about the "Jeyne" storyline. It looks like she won't be a noblewoman, and while that might help to explain the eventual Frey outrage, if they do indeed go with a "Prince and the peasant girl" type storyline its going to feel too Disney to me.

Except for the part with the villains winning of course.

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And LuisDantas since you're happy with the Stannis portrayal, you can imagine how I feel about it :D.

I'm also nervous about the "Jeyne" storyline. It looks like she won't be a noblewoman, and while that might help to explain the eventual Frey outrage, if they do indeed go with a "Prince and the peasant girl" type storyline its going to feel too Disney to me.

I don't remember any Disney movie ending with

the Prince being beheaded in front of his mother and having the head of his pet sewn on his shoulders

:P

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Well, there was that deleted scene from Aladdin where the Genie stabs him in the heart, saying "Hey ho, Jafarr send his regards!". Robin Williams really sold it.

But seriously, no way in hell would Robb have married someone who wasn't nobility.

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Howdy, FTR, I don't mind the changes and I think many characters and story lines have been deftly merged and pruned to retain essential story lines and characterization.

That said, the Ros scenes do not provide backdrop for anything important. The scenes are redundant if their purpose is to show us more about the character with whom she is 'interacting'.

And she is no Natalie Dormer. :P

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