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[Book Spoilers] EP 204 Discussion

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* Peaches hard to come by in Northern Ireland?

*Dany's comet only makes it into episode 1?

*Oona Chaplin was better than I thought she would be, I had a mistaken pre-assessment.

*Wow, wonder how long Michael McElhatton has been under contract? That's what I call a 'flash' appearance.

* Thought Tom Wlaschiha might get more screen time than he has, guess we see him next week.

*Not a heck of a lot happened in CoK but Dany does have five chapters there...

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Was the girl from Volantis supposed to be Jeyne Westerling? She did say her name was something else. Joffery is a piece of garbage and i felt sick watching that scene. I wish they would have just had him crossbowing some cats. I have a hard time watching women being abused. It did make me hate him even more which I didnt think was possible.

hmmm you have a hard time watching women being abused... Dirty Steve!?

Soz, couldn't resist it :)

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I'm still not sure what to think of this episode. A lot of the scenes were just uncomfortable to watch (aka anything with Joffrey in it).

I absolutely loved the non-peach scene. I was afraid they were going to make Renly very humourless, but he was quite entertaining without being over the top. The line 'Is he a ham?' with Loras laughing in the background killed me. I was disappointed there were no peaches, but enjoyed the scene overall.

As for the rest of the episode, well it really met its quota for the shocking and disgusting. Despite knowing the shadow scene was coming my face at the end was still :eek:

The Joffrey and Roz scene was completely unnecessary and I found it really difficult to watch. I don't mind blood, guts and nudity if it serves a purpose, but the whole scene was just pointless. We already know Joffrey is a c*nt, there was absolutely no need to go there. Really disappointed with the writers on that tbh.

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Overall I'm enjoying the season so far. The fade to black at the start instead of showing the battle was shit. I already felt a bit robbed last year when they cut the battle at the trident and this continuing trend doesn't inspire me for the Blackwater. Right now I'm expecting that to consist of three rowing boats, about five extras and no wildfire.

Loved the shadow baby but the episode should have ended with renly bleeding out. Seem's like the added scenes are slowing down the pace of the series.

Edited by Ser Tom

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I don't think the Joffrey whore scene was meant to solidify his sadistic nature (which it obviously did) but to seek revenge on Tyrion, send the whores back all bloody to sort of tell Tyrion "I don't want gifts from you, Imp."

I think it served both purposes and it did it well. On the one hand, Joffrey does come out as a really sick fuck who just acquired a taste for torture porn; on the other, there's an obvious political message he sends to Tyrion: 'You didn't let me have my way with the other one; well, here's what I say to that. I'm the fucking King and I do as I please'

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Overall I'm enjoying the season so far. The fade to black at the start instead of showing the battle was shit. I already felt a bit robbed last year when they cut the battle at the trident and this continuing trend doesn't inspire me for the Blackwater. Right now I'm expecting that to consist of three rowing boats, about five extras and no wildfire.

Actually the lack of dragons/direwolves/battles so far makes me optimistic for Blackwater. I really don't mind if they keep all the budget for that one episode.

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I hope you’re right on that, but what I’m really starting to be afraid of, is that HBO is going to soften the Hound WAY too much. He’s not supposed to only be this tortured guard that pity Sansa and wants to help her, he should also have those harsh interactions with her where he questions ALL of her beliefs and actions, and yes, he should also scare her.

Without this ambivalence and, I agree, totally weird dynamic between him and Sansa, their relation looses a lot of its interest.

Some people really don’t like it as they see it as unhealthy and it’s ok since there are so many different stuffs going on in these books; we all have some things we like and some we don’t, but Sandor’s not that nice ways are a big part of his interest. Now, if he’s just that rejected guy with a heart of gold that is truly one of the good guys in a too obvious way, I think that HBO is just not getting it.

The reason why Sandor is so captivating is that he has those huge mood switches. At first, you’re never completely sure how to classify him. We didn’t get that psycho factor he is supposed to have yet, and that is disappointing to me since this is what makes him so appealing to me as a character… you have to get that he is totally TORTURED!!! Where is his rage??

You said it Maroucia! I totally get that they need to change things for the show, but their translation is losing something. They also axed the part in the beating scene when Joff tells Sandor to hit Sansa, then Ser Dontos intervenes. After Boros starts doing the job, Sandor tells them "Enough". They left all that out and only had Tyrion intervene. Come on! :angry:

I guess we should be happy they didn't cut out the cloak part as well.... :mellow:

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First Impressions: Fine episode, a couple of issues and moved too fast are my issues with it.

The opening KL scene was great. However, the other two scenes there (Jofferey and whores and Tyrion/Lancel) were a mess. Joffery's scene was a complete waste of time just sex and mustache-twirling. Considering how rushed the rest of this episode felt, I have no idea why they gave this scene so long. Tyrion going over Lancel is fairly significant and just simply didn't work. I was watched a scripted scene, where I could (not literally) hear the director moving them along and watch them (again not literally) reading the script. Might be the poorest put together scene I've ever scene on the show.

The Stannis/Renly summit was great, almost perfect, though I think Catelyn should have positioned herself more in the middle. She was clearly on Renly's scene (physically), and she should have understood better how her positioning would have affected Stannis. The shdowbaby scene didn't work for me. The lead up was excellent. Both great actors and they really sold it. The birth itself looked like a cheap Syfy scene. if you can't do it right, don't do it on camera.

Harrenhal looked great and those scenes worked. I realize more purist heads exploded there, you guys must be an endangered species by now. You were warned this would happen as Charles Dance talked about many scenes with Maise Wiliams, and this is the only way that makes sense. Best parts of this episode, and still weaker than the previous two sets of Arya scenes.

Quarth scene was excellent. Exactly what it had to be.

I enjoyed Robb's warging scene. However, are we going to believe that he uses Grey Wind to take on sentries (clever), but the noise of that attack (followed by the war horns and battle cries) does not eliminate any advantage this warging gave them? Florence Nightingale was meh. I don't really care who he is going to burn the Frey alliance with, as she will never matter in show beyond that.

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What they do well, they do well, but when they strike, it's bad.

Harrenhall - really liked everything about it, condensed, to the point - brough story lines together.

Robb/battle - aside from Tywins forces maybe needing to eat fewer beans, liked how they did this. interesting change to have Robb and Jeyne meet before he gets injured. I think the only downside to that is that now they have have even a small amount of history it makes his decision later on more understandable whereas the book it really does come as a full surprise.

Qarth - thought the speaker for the 13 was great... "we have received you." Was a little clunky in some ways but gets the relationship with Xaro and Dany started.

Joffrey - Court room scene: well done. liked the background display of Sansa getting the white cloak and then Tyrion taking her out.

Joffrey - bed room: oh crap, we forgot we don't have any nudity! we know Joffrey is a sick bastard - he just had a crossbow pointed at his betrothed in front of the court, he just had a Kingsguard start to beat his betrothed in front of the court. He got pleasure from showing his betrothed her fathers head on a spike.

Tyrion - Lancel: Lancels new arrogance, Tyrions C game besting Lancel...well done.

LF - anyone: "TV Petyr Baelish, I read Littlefinger, I know Littlefinger, Littlefinger was a favorite character of mine. TV Petyr Baelish, you're no Littlefinger".

Not having Renly with the peach was a disappointment - just loved how that played out in the reading of it. Might be misremembering, but there were no gates where the Shadowbaby got Renly - is this one depicting Storms End? Since Renly is staying in a tent himself, the gates didn't seem to fit.

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I liked the episode, but man--I really, really, really hated the Joffrey and Ros scene. And it's not because I hate Ros (I do) and it's not because I think the show should slavishly adhere to the books (I don't), it's because it *completely* knocks the wind out of Sansa's sails. [...]

And then we get the prostitutes scene to follow up, which is going to be all anybody talks about.

Very good point. I hadn't thought of that, but it's very true.

Hell, poor Sophie Turner, she gets less screen time than Esmé Bianco... -_-

Well your rant wasn't needed. I know The Tickler wasn't supposed to look creepy but he's supposed to be creepy and questions someone. Arya gets the chills in ASOS when he asks a question at the Inn. That's what makes The Tickler so creepy, he looks ordinary but he's far from it.

Yeah... she gets a chill because he's this ordinary, mild-mannered, matter-of-fact dude who proceeds to torture the fuck out of people without so much as frowning at what he's doing. Not because of his voice or looks or anything like that.

The whole point of the Tickler is that people are not always what they seem. Another line that highlights this:

The night she was caught, the Lannister men had been nameless strangers with faces as alike as their nasal helms, but she’d come to know them all. You had to know who was lazy and who was cruel, who was smart and who was stupid. You had to learn that even though the one they called Shitmouth had the foulest tongue she’d ever heard, he’d give you an extra piece of bread if you asked, while jolly old Chiswyck and soft-spoken Raff would just give you the back of their hand.

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Still not sure what I think about the episode. Overall not as good as the last one though probably better than the first 2.

Good things first. Qarth looked cool, and so did the shadow assassin (though that's not how I pictured him). The Sansa scene was OK, though short. But then that's a complaint that could be made about a lot of scenes in the show. I liked the Robb scene (although from the conversation of the 2 guards it's clear that Renly+Loras is in fact common knowledge which is not only extremely unlike the book, it plainly doesn't make any sense).

Now to the not so good. I finally decided I'm not liking the show's depiction of Stannis and Melisandre. Stannis in particular is nothing like in the book. He's in fact dull, and the confrontation with Renly was very disappointing. And Mel is too plain looking, and the "night is full of terrors" line can only work so many times before becoming repetitive.

Though it was cool to see Harrenhal it's odd that they started asking "Is there gold in this village?" 2 weeks and 500 km after they left said village. The Mountain is tall but too thin. The Tickler wasn't what I pictured (more stand-up comedian than creepy torturer) but overall the torture scenes were nicely done.

The actor that plays Lancel... Was he auditioned at all? That entire scene was very badly done. The script was too short to properly convey the condescension->anger->shock->confusion->humiliation->begging and it wasn't helped at all by what I though was school play level acting.

Finally the ugly. That Joffrey sado-maso scene. WTF?! This show is literally turning into porn now. I'm not some saintly puritan but this wasn't just unnecessary and a waste of screen time, it was just cringe-worthy, disgusting and crappy. Seriously Mrs. D&D, real porn is easily available these days, stop messing up the show with your sick fantasies.

Edited by ace

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I was terrified for a moment that he was going to make her do something much, much worse with that mace or whatever it was. :eek: :bawl:

I'm glad I'm not the only one. So, I guess it's mission accomplished: I'll believe Joffery is capable of anything horrible and sadistic, to the point where my mind starts imagining worse than what's being shown.

If they had pushed the scene that far, I'm certain my wife would be done with the show. And the books too. (No she hasn't read Dance yet.)

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I really really wanted to see Renly taunt Stannis with the peach. I really did. Very disappointed that was left out. Afterwards when Stannis says how hell be haunted forever by Renlys peach could have been a great scene too.

Liked the episode nonetheless

just wish they cut out the pointless stuff like Joffrey being a Snuff film director. We already KNOW hes a Sadist, they hammered that home already for people who havnt read the books.

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Well said. Agree 100%. Book readers should be happy that this story is being told on tv and on a channel that can truly do it justice. It's an adaptation, name me an adaptation that is 100% accurate to its source material and i will name you a liar.

Not many books get portrayed with such great production quality, acting, budget, etc. Plus, the overall story that the books tell is being told, just in a more t.v./hbo friendly manner.

Name me a person asking for it to be 100% verbatim.

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Finally the ugly. That Joffrey sado-maso scene. WTF?! This show is literally turning into porn now. I'm not some saintly puritan but this wasn't just unnecessary and a waste of screen time, it was just cringe-worthy, disgusting and crappy. Seriously Mrs. D&D, real porn is easily available these days, stop messing up the show with your sick fantasies.

This.

Those scenes just annoy me so much. Joffrey is crazy: we get it. Whores aren't worth a damn: we get it. This is HBO: we get it.

Stop wasting valuable screentime with thinly veiled snuff, it's going to end up alienating a lot of viewers, even amongst book readers.

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The thing about the Tickler is not that he is a really creepy looking guy that tortures people, its that he is a plain guy who doesnt stand out and could be any other soldier who happens to torure people in some screwed up ways. His averageness is what makes him creepy, the fact that he is so plain that anyone could turn out to be like him is what makes him creepy. At least that is what I picked from the books, in that respect I think they cast the actor perfectly.

People really need to get over the fact that things arent 100% as they are in the books, the book does not = the TV show stop complaining about every little or big change, the show is close and faithful overall to the books just be pleased it is being made in the first place.

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Loved the episode! not how i saw Harranhal in my head but it is a creepy as ever.

However i have to wonder why they did the shadow baby reveal to kill the protector of Storms End before the mesterious death of Renly. In the book it was Renly's death clouded in mystery then when Davos sees the shadowbaby its like ohhh so thats what killed Renly.

I could be remebering it wrong please correct me if i have. I still think it will all work out ok.

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To everyone who commented about the rather long, spiky thing (was it a scepter, a weapon?) Joffrey handed Ros to use on the other girl, I so expected her to do something else with it too. Rather shocked when this did not happen.

Also, Charles Dance is so wonderful as Tywin Lannister. I'm happy whenever he is on the screen.

Im starting to think they wanted us to think "that" was going to happen.

After all the brutality and horror in that scene, "that" doesnt happen and were all like "oh thank the god(s)"

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I did like how the episode started with two soldiers debating who was the better fighter...sounds like something from this forum :D

Doesn't it? That part made me laugh, I felt like I had that conversation before... :laugh:

Ok, refreshed now. Real quick before I get ready for work....

Qarth, from the quick shot we got of it, looked stunning. Was that Pyat Pree in the far right end? He looked like the actor cast for him and he had the blue lips. Anyway, so far from what I've seen of Xaro, I think I Iike him better than the books. I need to see more, but the actor had me intrigued.

Harrenhal was more gigantic than I pictured. It looked fucking incredible. It had this whole atmosphere of terror, grief, and ruin which is how I imagined it in the books, a real scary place. I did enjoy the Arya and Tywin interaction. "This one is a girl, you idiot!" Lol.

Re: The Joff and 2 whores scene. Count me as one of those people who were expecting Joff to ask Ros to do something much more disgusting with that club. :eek: For the first time watching this series, I was really prepared to turn away. I was all like, "Aw, Hell NO! This is some Ramsay shit!" But it didn't happen, but the scene was still horrible and disgusting to watch.

Not sure how I feel about Not!Jeyne. Is she lying about her name to hide her nobility and status? Or did they really change her character? I honestly don't know. Anyway, I guess we will see soon enough.

Carice Van Houton is doing a fine job, but I still don't like Mel. Not the actress' fault, I never got into the character. She's playing her perfectly, though. On the flip side, Natalie Dormer's Margaery is so cool, another character in the books I never cared much for, but on the show I'm totally digging her. I loved her giving it back to Littlefinger when he was asking questions that were clearly not his business.

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