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[Book Spoilers] EP 204 Discussion

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Live by the sword, die by the sword

I’ve always thought that sounds a whole lot better in the original Latin proverb whence the English derives:

Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit.

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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So I knew they were going to combine the two shadow babies into one, and I figured they definitely wouldn't do away with the scene of Davos smuggling Melisandre, but I figured that meant we'd see Storms End, as that was the only thing left that would make sense. Renly would be at Storms End, and the shadow baby to kill Renly would be born there. But they took a different tact, which I'm not sure makes any sense if you actually think about it.

Also, I was totally expecting it to go straight from that scene to Brienne putting Renly's armor on, and then ending the episode with Renly's death. I'm surprised that didn't happen.

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+1

When we criticize, it's because we don't want to see this show tank because of the inconsistent, bad writing. I'd like to see GoT survive till the end of the series, which will be a decade away if we're lucky. If they're making it unwieldy, disjointed, and difficult to follow in the first half of season 2, what are non-readers going to do by the time Davos goes to Skagos and Tyrion is running around with The Golden Company?

i dont think its that hard for non-book readers to follow.

I think we as fans of the books can make it MORE difficult for ourselves to follow. We know how GRRMs story goes. But this isnt his story. We are trying to fit in GRRMs story with what we are seeing on screen happening, and what is going to happen. The truth is we dont know how HBO is going to take the story. We know A-Z what has happened in the books. But dont assume HBO is going to follow that path to get to Z.

A non-book fans brain isnt cluttered up with GRRMs story. They arent constantly trying to figure out how the events happening are going to work with what we know happens in the future in the books.

Edited by blasted_saber

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The #1 thing that is really starting to annoy me the most is the running time of the episodes. Once you take out the time for the opening and closing credits, each episode this season has barely been 50 minutes long. That is completely unacceptable. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Renly/Stannis scene. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Davos/Mel scene to explain what the hell they were doing. I would watch five minutes of Tyrion just walking around the halls of the Red Keep for gods sake! But 50 minutes of content each week just plain sucks and the scenes are really starting to feel rushed on top of that. We've lost almost 40 minutes of content this season so far!

Other tidbits:

1. How in the hell did Littlefinger or Tyrion know that Cat was treating with Renly at his camp? Did Robb send a raven to King's Landing a couple of weeks ago to say "To Whom it May Concern, my Mother will be treating with Renly at his camp from ___ to ___. Save the date!" Did Cat send a raven to King's Landing once she arrived at Renly's camp saying "If anyone need me, or is looking for me, I will be at Renly's camp from ___ to ___."

2. Loved the Imp commanding the Throne Room!

3. Harrenhall was incredibly awesome and unbelievably dreadfull. 500 times worse than I pictured it when reading.

4. Did I mention that the episodes are just too damn short! And damn, do they fly by!

Edited by Mista C

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The #1 thing that is really starting to annoy me the most is the running time of the episodes. Once you take out the time for the opening and closing credits, each episode this season has barely been 50 minutes long. That is completely unacceptable. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Renly/Stannis scene. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Davos/Mel scene to explain what the hell they were doing. I would watch five minutes of Tyrion just walking around the halls of the Red Keep for gods sake! But 50 minutes of content each week just plain sucks and the scenes are really starting to feel rushed on top of that. We've lost almost 40 minutes of content this season so far!

Would you rather it be on network television and lose a half hour a week to commercials?

HBO is doing a fantastic job. 50 minutes commercial free kick ass television on a substantial budget is far from completely unacceptable.

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The #1 thing that is really starting to annoy me the most is the running time of the episodes. Once you take out the time for the opening and closing credits, each episode this season has barely been 50 minutes long. That is completely unacceptable. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Renly/Stannis scene. They could have added 2-3 minutes to the Davos/Mel scene to explain what the hell they were doing. I would watch five minutes of Tyrion just walking around the halls of the Red Keep for gods sake! But 50 minutes of content each week just plain sucks and the scenes are really starting to feel rushed on top of that. We've lost almost 40 minutes of content this season so far!

Strongly agree with everything you wrote. I don’t understand why they’re doing this. It’s not like they’re going to shop this out to syndication where they need to keep it to 50 minutes so that with commercials it fits in a 90 minute timeslot.

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1. How in the hell did Littlefinger or Tyrion know that Cat was treating with Renly at his camp? Did Robb send a raven to King's Landing a couple of weeks ago to say "To Whom it May Concern, my Mother will be treating with Renly at his camp from ___ to ___. Save the date!" Did Cat send a raven to King's Landing once she arrived at Renly's camp saying "If anyone need me, or is looking for me, I will be at Renly's camp from ___ to ___."

The base assumption is just from spies within each others courts. They find out LF gets on his plane and is with Renly within days.

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Wow. This episode was awful.

They took one of the best passages George has ever written -- the landing at Storm's End, which, of course, is completely absent -- and mutilated it with a tragic CUT TO that barely empthasizes a massive part of the novel -- how much it costs for a king to truly win a throne. Sadly, the speech between Renly and Stannis was absolutely flat. In the novel, it frickin popped -- back and forth, Renly the conniving brother who just wants some respect, and the honorable Stannis believing in right over victor.

And then there was the torturing scene. Really? Do we not already know how awful Joffrey is? It's just... god, so useless to the overall story. Oh, and what about this new love interest for Robb? How is that even close to important?

I'll take a breath. I did like the handling of Harrenhal, but, yeah, I'm so negative....

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Best episode so far anyone? Though by far the most cruel... First of all I must say I absolutely loved what they did to Harrenhall - not as great as I imagined, perhaps, but certainly much more realistic. Arya's arc promises to be the best. Tyrion was as great as usual (that scene with Lancel was simply lol), Renly and Stannis meeting was good enough, though a bit rushed (is it just me or Stannis' scenes always seem too rushed?), and the shadow baby scene was much more creepy than I could ever have thought.

The only thing I didn't like was Baelish. I don't know, the character seems to have lost something since the first season.

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ME TOO! I was strangely relived to see it just be used for beating. I think that would be too far...even for HBO.

Exactly how I felt but I get why they used that scene to highlight just how sick and twisted Joffery really is. They have to show that Joff is much more of a threat to Sansa than Cersei to help set up/explain her escape after Joff gets his "just deserts"

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Would you rather it be on network television and lose a half hour a week to commercials?

HBO is doing a fantastic job. 50 minutes commercial free kick ass television on a substantial budget is far from completely unacceptable.

No, I would not want it to be on network tv, and yes, HBO is doing a fantasic job. And yes again, it is 50 minutes of commercial free kick ass television, but...

What I was implying is that it seems like some scenes are being rushed right out the door, then the episode ends and I look at the clock and it's 9:51. They could add a few minutes to several scenes here and there and still be under an hour. The Renly-Stannis meeting was awesome, but 3 extra minutes could have made it even awesome-er. And they were already there filming the scene anyways so it's not like I'm asking for new scenes that were not even in the episode. I'm just asking for them to add a couple of minutes to the key scenes so as not to rush them.

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I completely agree with people saying that the episodes run too short (I timed it at 50 mins too)...I end up thinking "oh, no, it's over" and wanting more after each one, maybe that's what they were going for ? :-) The HBO could have made them longer b/c there is so much material to be covered, but I guess it's their vision.

I feel that the HBO Joffrey is about 16 - older than book Joffrey 13 yo, so it wouldn't make much sense if 16 yo would crossbowing cats around the castle...

The Joffrey scene with whores shows us a different Joffrey : he feels "sting" after being "educated"=reprimanded by his uncle in front of all the people while he was sitting on the Iron Throne no less! So he sends a message to Tyrion, to warn him not to mess up with him (for he can play "the game"), after he confirms by asking Roz that "my uncle picked you himself". I wish they would show Tyrion's reaction later on.

I felt a bit concerned about missing Dondarion and then hearing Tickler asking the tortured about Brotherhood (without borders), but I read the books. I get the feeling that Dondarion and his red priest won't be making an appearance due to budget considerations, then it leaves the question of reanimating Catelyn, so I think they won't be killing her to make it easier on a viewer (and not the reader !).

In general we are getting much more sex (albeit it's not the sexy kind of sex) than magic in this interpretation of the books and it's producers right to their vision, also it's probably cheaper to make :-)

I don't get an idea of Stannis having sex with Melissandre from reading the book. The whole story with illegitimate king's heir Edrick Storm (name sp???) has disappeared : Melissandre burned 3 leeches with his blood to show Stannis what she is capable of (killing his 3 enemies - Renly, Robb, Joffrey) , and later a hint to make a live dragon by sacrificing that child's life.

I do agree that the Shadowbaby birth was a great cliffhanger and that 5 episode starts with Renly's killing (it wasn't very clearly explained until later in the books , so that's why they showed the monster's birth in the first place, I think)

Overall, the best episode so far!

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I felt a bit concerned about missing Dondarion and then hearing Tickler asking the tortured about Brotherhood (without borders), but I read the books. I get the feeling that Dondarion and his red priest won't be making an appearance due to budget considerations, then it leaves the question of reanimating Catelyn, so I think they won't be killing her to make it easier on a viewer (and not the reader !).

Thoros was mentioned in the first season, Beric even appeared in it. Most likely they will appear at some point.

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I’ve always thought that sounds a whole lot better in the original Latin proverb whence the English derives:

Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit.

Ha right thanks iv never heard the latin for it but as a saying its right up their with my favourites, along with its neighbour. Does sound cool

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I know where Beric has appeared - Ned ordered him to take Mountain's men into custody, but there is no explanation of what happened to him (died/reanimated). It seems to be 1 of the cut storylines for the show

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I actually thought the scene with Joffrey was effective. We all know that Joffrey can be cruel, childish, and vindicitve, but this scene was meant to show that it is not some teenage hijinx that he can grow out of, he is evil and sadisticc to the bone and there is no redemtion for him.

Is anyone esle completely digusted with Littlefinger's voice this season? He has changed his accent and the tone of his voice so much so that I am actually starting to wince whenever I hear him speak (he almost sounds lilke batman in the dark knight!) I loved him last season and he needs to back to that voice.......especially when you consider the big conversation he is going to have with Sansa later on that made him one of the best characters in the series. I thought he did an excellent job of playing littlefinger last season, but make no mistake, the character is in freefall.

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Iknow a lot of people are anoyed that Renley doesn't have a peach. Although I also find it disappointing, for me, it doesn't fit with tv Renley.

I'm such a pain in the ass when it come sto castin, (don't get me started on Anne Hathaway as Catwoman). I've always hated the casting of Renley. HATED>

The way Renley is portrayed on the show, and acted by Gethin, (not saying he isn't a good actor), is NOT the character who laughs with a juicy peach. His look, stature, demeanor, etc, are so different from the show, that the apple he munched on in the tent is more suitable than the juicy peach during the parlay.

I'd rather the scene be peachless than be reminded one more second how irked I am at tv Renley. I was sad about Ren;ey's death in the books. I don't think I will be watching the show. The only way I will tear up is if Christie does a good job at being upset. That will move more. Not Renley's death and certainly not the actor playing Loras, who I find as annoyed as I find Mace in the books.

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I know where Beric has appeared - Ned ordered him to take Mountain's men into custody, but there is no explanation of what happened to him (died/reanimated). It seems to be 1 of the cut storylines for the show

It's a cut storyline from this season, but you can't cut it completely. Arya's story next season requires the BwB, as does Gendry's.

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