Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP 204 Discussion

Recommended Posts

I'm glad they reigned in the Sansa scene...reading about it is fine, but seeing a kid beaten, even though its fake, makes me squirm. Maybe because I have nieces Sansa's age, or I'm just gettign old, but her beating scenes break my heart.

That's the point, our hearts are suppose to break for poor Sansa, that's why I don't think the scene should be downplayed. GRRM is so great at making everything seem so real, the good and the bad, and that's part of what makes his story so great.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just because Davos does not like Melisandre, that does not mean he can't be physically attracted to her. Any guy with eyes would be attracted to Melisandre, she is beautiful, mysterious, and very powerful. Hell even a lot of woman would be attracted to Melisandre, so I have no problem with that scene at all.

No. The point of the Davos character as it relates to Melisandre, and R'hlor, is to act/appear the character foil to Stannis. Despite his disreputable past, Davos remains more independent, in thought and religious faith, than Stannis, and thus, more honorable, loyal, etc. The attraction to Melisandre is and HBO thing, and a very specific departure from ASoIaF, though not that cataclysmic, overall.

I've always thought that the novels had very deliberate character foils built in: Jon/Robb/Joffrey, Tyrion/Jaime, Cercei/Catelyn, Sansa/Arya/Margery, Ned/Robert, Varys/LF, the list goes on. So, when small adjustments are made for HBO viewer sake, I wonder what the butterfly effect will be, and while the "attraction" Davos is given for Melisandre in the show is easily a minimal adjustment, it is the minimal adjustments that will allow for more dramatic changes in the future.

The end result will be an adaptation of the novels, which may or may not be as satisfying as an exact replication. So, we wait and see.

And, no, I will not wait to judge the Robb/Nurse Volantis scenario. It's trite, and worse, predictable, both of which are decidedly not in GRRM's wheelhouse.

YMMV.

Of course, I'm still gonna watch because HBO done got me by the balls. :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand, but how graphic do you want to make a kid getting beaten on TV, even if it is cable TV?

Well, how graphic are the sexpositions? How graphic was the subsequent whore beating scene which, lest anyone forget, was demanded by what we would consider a child?

Some would argue that a graphic beating scene involving Sansa would be too graphic, perhaps even offensive? But beating a nameless whore? That doesn't say much for the level of humanity watching, now does it?

I'm just spitballing here, mind you....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(and if they're end up showing the Boltons flaying anyone alive - Kyra or Theon, etc. I will probably not buy the dvd; there's only so much violence and torture I can stomach; I had to fast-forward past the Tickler and rat sequences in this episode)

seconded. though i already posted about it, it bears repeating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the point, our hearts are suppose to break for poor Sansa, that's why I don't think the scene should be downplayed. GRRM is so great at making everything seem so real, the good and the bad, and that's part of what makes his story so great.

Yeah but the actress is actually a child. They can't show it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im more disgusted with the baby killing scene in the 1st episode and even the 2nd episode where they leave the baby to the white-walkers than the child beating. Sansa, gave away her fathers plans and got him killed. I am having a hard time sympathizing for her.

Edited by Anduin Lothar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a trite, useless post.

This is discussion forum, people. If you have a problem with people discussing the series, then what the hell are you doing here?

Pot... Kettle... Black...you're not exactly opening up the dialogue is all I'm trying to say. Some purist arguments are valid, others aren't. Some apologists' arguments are valid, others aren't. No need to tell people they shouldn't be here. This stand-still rhetoric gets on my nerves a little. From both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally agree and I'm at a total loss as to why they did that scene that way. Brotherhood who???

Hell, my wife, who read ACOK a few years ago, is getting confused watching the series....

I don't think there's any requirement for the viewers to understand everything right away just because it's TV. They even have Gendry saying that he doesn't know what the Brotherhood is, to drive home the point that the characters doesn't understand it either (yet).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but the actress is actually a child. They can't show it.

They did show it? So how do you think they "can't" show it? Sure Ser Meryn Trant smacked Sansa more than once with the flat of his sword in the books, but they still showed him punching her in the abdomen, and smacking her once. Would it really be that much worse to show him smacking her a handful of times? I think the reason why they didn't show it all was because it would take more time, not because they "can't" show it. Sansa is played by a 16 year old, it's really not that bad, considering they showed a guy sticking a sword through Lommy Greenhands neck, and he seemed way younger than Sansa. They also showed Arya(a young girl) stabbing the stable boy in season one. So again, I don't think that it was something they were not able to do, because they have showed worse, and they did show Sansa getting beaten up, it just wasn't as long as in the books. Most likely because they wanted to save time for Joffery's whore abuse scene.

Is showing a girl getting beaten up, and smacked with a sword worse than showing kids getting stabbed to death by a sword, especially when one of those times was a kid stabbing another kid.

I know they can't show Sansa getting her gown fully ripped off from the waste up, like in the books, because Sophie Turner is not 18 yet, but I do think they can show her getting beaten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stevens was not dumped.

He had a contractual obligation to Peter Jackson for the Hobbit that precluded him from working this season.

He has said he would like to come back.

In CoK the Mountain has his slash and burn tactics mentioned ,but his actual physical presence on the page is minimal in the novel.

Why they didn't just have him off screen for this season is a puzzle.

Just keep Ian Whyte for the White Walker stuff.

I noticed in the Harrenhal scene we do see Ian Whyte for a little while tho the camera angles seemed to be kind of hiding him, when Gendry is picked, I think we only hear a voice , I don't think we see him at all.

He may vanish from the rest of the episodes.

I can certainly forgive Mr. Stevens for running off to New Zealand to play a goblin or whatever; I can't wait to see The Hobbit. But I hope he'll return to Westeros when he's done threatening filming the movies; I would be horrified if my darling Oberyn Martell would be killed by the willowy Mr. Whyte. Of course, at the rate that the AGOT directors/writers are changing and consolidating characters, the Red Viper may not appear at all :crying: or he might be a redhaired 20-year-old. With freckles. (nothing wrong with redhaired freckled 20-year-old boys, I have fond memories of one, but that's not Oberyn Martell!)

At least Tywin showed up. Casting Charles Dance in the role was a master-stroke, thank you very much, AGOT directors! :D

It will be nice to see Arya less grubby next time; at least I assume she'll be bathed and given new clothes; Tywin Lannister would expect clean waitstaff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's any requirement for the viewers to understand everything right away just because it's TV. They even have Gendry saying that he doesn't know what the Brotherhood is, to drive home the point that the characters doesn't understand it either (yet).

I agree, the audience can figure it out as time goes on. After they figure it out, when the rewatch episode 14, they will say " oh that's what that was about" etc... There was a bunch of things that I did not get at first in the books, and that's what made the rereads so enjoyable. There more you get to know the material, the more you see how connected and complex everything is. So I have no problem with the show not spelling out everything at first, because the books did not do that either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is anyone else worried about the Hound so far in the serie? It seems like they are nearly killing all his scenes.

The scene in Game of Thrones where the Hound explains to Sansa what happened to his face was given to LF. His reactions to Joffrey beating Sansa are also missing.

I'm starting to wonder if his relationship with Sansa has been left out of the serie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So do you guys reckon the Jaime/Brienne thing is going to be brought forward? The way LF proposed it to Cat, it seems to be not that far off. The plan is going through Cat's mind now...

Perhaps the "man of no honor" of episode 7 refers to Jaime (AND Theon)? Brienne likes drawing attention to his kingslaying past so this title sounds like something she'd say to him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most likely because they wanted to save time for Joffery's whore abuse scene.

I agree with everything you said in this post, especially with that. And I do not like it. Those naked scenes are going too far.

Is anyone else worried about the Hound so far in the serie? It seems like they are nearly killing all his scenes.

The scene in Game of Thrones where the Hound explains to Sansa what happened to his face was given to LF. His reactions to Joffrey beating Sansa are also missing.

I'm starting to wonder if his relationship with Sansa has been left out of the serie.

Yup, that concerning. Although, I would point ou a little, but maybe significant difference from the books: in the books, Sandor only throws his white cloak to the floor, Sansa picks it up and covers herself with it. In the series, he comes to her and puts the cloak around her shoulders himself. There might be still a chance for them.

In this scene, it was very obvious that the floor in the throne room is very dirty - have they not invented brooms in Westeros yet?

Edited by Buckwheat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the sex scenes, yes, they can be too graphic, especially Ros' Girl-Girl Extravaganza from Season One. But, to me it doesn't effect me like watching a little girl getting cuffed. Just old-fashioned, I s'pose.

Really? I felt terrible for Sansa getting beaten and stripped in the throne room, I really did. But the scene with Joff abusing two prostitutes and the torture in Harrenhal were equally sick. I could not say one made me feel worse than another.

So do you guys reckon the Jaime/Brienne thing is going to be brought forward? The way LF proposed it to Cat, it seems to be not that far off. The plan is going through Cat's mind now...

Actually, Petyr spelled it out for her ;).

Does anyone else think it illogical that Petyr would carry Ned's bones south with him to Renly's place?

Edited by Buckwheat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Petyr spelled it out for her ;).

Does anyone else think it illogical that Petyr would carry Ned's bones south with him to Renly's place?

The Spider probably told him Catelyn would be there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Spider probably told him Catelyn would be there.

He certainly knew she would be there, Tyrion sent him there just to talk to her. But it would be more practical to send the bones straight North without carrying them across half the continent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, Petyr spelled it out for her ;).

Yeah but now she's gonna flea back to Robb's camp with that idea freshly implanted in her mind. I think she's gonna release him straight away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm worried if the Volantis Nurse doesn't end up being Jeyne Westerling, the whole Red Wedding plot could be altered by the writers. However, in reality, I do not think GRRM will allow them to severely change one of the most important events of the next book (ASoS).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×