[Book Spoilers] EP 204 Discussion

[Winterfell is Burning]

My only major complaint is there was no peach in the Stannis-Renly scene. That's just wrong.

[MegasAV]

I think the the tv series showing Joffrey's interactions with the two prostitutes demonstrating the sadistic side of his character is sort of like the pregnant cat story in the novel which caused Robert Baratheon to strike him as a child, interesting the Hbos producers take I believe at least.

[Jory]

One of the producers said "Stannis would make a terrible king". Oh hell no

[IronSuitor]

If the dragons werent shown for budgetary constraints, what the hell are they going to do in the upcoming seasons?

When dragons are necessary to the plot, they'll show the freaking dragons. Indulging in dragon showing every time you want a peak would be a one way ticket to a disappointing Battle of the Blackwater.

[Dirty Steve]

My only major complaint is there was no peach in the Stannis-Renly scene. That's just wrong.

Really? That is a actual complaint?

[dtones520]

I am dumbfounded that someone would get through watching this great pile of awesomeness and then run immediately to their computer to start complaining about it. Here are some facts...

1. The TV show is not the books. It is based on the books. It is also being translated with as much care and appreciation as any work of fantasy that I have ever seen. This includes the LOTR movies by Peter Jackson. I actually think this is much closer to the books.

2. The characters are not the exact same characters. First of all, to eliminate confusion, some characters have been merged with other character, and some have taken on different personalities. The point, is that the overall story arc is still being lovingly told here. I try not to judge any performance based on the book character, but instead base it on how well they are acted. So far the level of acting in this series is as remarkable as anything that i have ever seen on television, including Shae, Peter Baelish, and Joffery. They are nailing their performances every time. They are all achieving the emotional discourse that they are being directed in outstandingly.

3. Ros is a character on the show. Get the fuck over it. Her role is not a waste of space, she is providing a great narrative, and she is smoking hot. She is also nailing her role. the look of fear on her face as Joffrey forces her to beat her fellow worker was some of the best acting on tonight's episode, and as I already mentioned, this is remarkable because of how well acted this series is.

Well said. Agree 100%. Book readers should be happy that this story is being told on tv and on a channel that can truly do it justice. It's an adaptation, name me an adaptation that is 100% accurate to its source material and i will name you a liar.

Not many books get portrayed with such great production quality, acting, budget, etc. Plus, the overall story that the books tell is being told, just in a more t.v./hbo friendly manner.

[HokieStone]

I'm kinda neutral on the Joffrey scene. Didn't love it, didn't hate it.

Whatever the story is, I'm sorry the guy who played the Mountain last year isn't back. The new guy isn't half as imposing.

I completely understand why roles have to be merged, some storylines cut, etc. Even with all that, I fear that as the show goes on, it may start shedding viewers. We're almost halfway through the season, and we've had what, 5 minutes of Robb? Dany has had maybe 10-15 minutes, most of it tonight. Major characters from season 1 that are missing for entire episodes...and it's only going to get worse.

[IronSuitor]

I am dumbfounded that someone would get through watching this great pile of awesomeness and then run immediately to their computer to start complaining about it. Here are some facts...

1. The TV show is not the books. It is based on the books. It is also being translated with as much care and appreciation as any work of fantasy that I have ever seen. This includes the LOTR movies by Peter Jackson. I actually think this is much closer to the books.

2. The characters are not the exact same characters. First of all, to eliminate confusion, some characters have been merged with other character, and some have taken on different personalities. The point, is that the overall story arc is still being lovingly told here. I try not to judge any performance based on the book character, but instead base it on how well they are acted. So far the level of acting in this series is as remarkable as anything that i have ever seen on television, including Shae, Peter Baelish, and Joffery. They are nailing their performances every time. They are all achieving the emotional discourse that they are being directed in outstandingly.

3. Ros is a character on the show. Get the fuck over it. Her role is not a waste of space, she is providing a great narrative, and she is smoking hot. She is also nailing her role. the look of fear on her face as Joffrey forces her to beat her fellow worker was some of the best acting on tonight's episode, and as I already mentioned, this is remarkable because of how well acted this series is.

This should be pinned to the top of every single one of these threads.

[pinkie10]

I don't think the Joffrey whore scene was meant to solidify his sadistic nature (which it obviously did) but to seek revenge on Tyrion, send the whores back all bloody to sort of tell Tyrion "I don't want gifts from you, Imp."

Jeyne Westerling is being replaced by Oona Chaplin, that nurse. I like her. Who really cares where Jeyne Westerling comes from? Even if she is lying to Robb about being from Volantis (which I assume she is), if she is from the South, who cares what her actual name is?

The new Mountain is too skinny and not as scary as Conan (old Mountain). I'll deal.

I liked the Tickler scenes because in the book he is described as plain-faced and difficult to remember when not torturing people and that is what he is in the show, just a normal-looking dude. Well casted.

The Dany scene was awkward but sets up relationship between her and Xaro.

I still can not get over the lack of peach at the Baratheon parley. It seemed rushed and I hated it even though it was well acted.

Also, is it me or is Harrenhal in the wrong place on the opening map? I always thought it was almost just north of King's Landing. In the opening credits, it was on the west side of Westeros.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next episode will begin with Renly just being dead. Hope that's not the case.

[Darth Pipes]

I agree. That line was the worst thing about this episode for me. Book LF would never have said it. TV LF isn't as cunning as book LF. In the book, LF is a brilliant operator and financier, personally keeping the kingdom afloat finacially. This doesn't come accross on TV, where the character is much more hamhanded. That said, he's perfectly cast/

Count me in as also agreeing with this. Littlefinger very much resembled his book character in this episode except in this one scene. He's far too clever and calculating to try to put the moves on Cat while she is still grieving, especially considering that Cat rightly believes he betrayed her husband. That is NOT calculating. Littlefinger is supposed to show that kind of weakness...that is not the character he is. I'm sure if he could pull it off, he WOULD eventually try to seduce Catelyn but not until he had convinced her that he wasn't responsible for his death and after she had mourned for her husband.

Littlefinger revealed the kind of man he was in the books when he betrayed Ned. But he was also a man to play his cards close to his vest. The sexposition monologue last season, openly mocking Cersei about her relationship with Jaime, the monlogue with Ros, and trying to seduce a recently widowed Cat are not moves Littlefinger would make. That's not the character he's supposed to be. There are plenty of other characters who would act that way but NOT Littlefinger. They don't need to be so overt as to his motivations. He's supposed to keep you guessing as to his next move.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Darth Pipes

[TheTrueMithrandir]

- the Tyrion/Lancel exchange was probably my favorite scene, Lancel oddly is one of my favorite and IMO one of the most interesting non-POV characters in the books - where he starts, his both psychological and physical journey and where he is currently at in the books and his ultimate and as of yet unknown fate - he has always fascinated me....

[PhoenixFlame]

Was Stannis the Grammar Nazi in the books? It's great touch. "Fewer." XD

Lancel got pwned. Thanks to some other boarder who once referred to him as "Little Red Riding Lancel," that name is stuck in my head.

Ok...the thing about the new Mountain that bugs me is his voice. He sounds way too polished. In the books the dude comes across as barely capable of holding a conversation. "Grr. Argh. SWORD!" That said, it's a hard role to fill physically.

I liked the Shadowbaby scene more here than in the books. In the books I just pictured this little shadow dude running off. Loved the whole crawling screeching thing. Mel's belly contorting as she birthed it...blech! :stillsick:

[blasted_saber]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the next episode will begin with Renly just being dead. Hope that's not the case.

Ya, thats what I see happening as well.

[J_Crews]

I thought book joffery is the same age if not older then Robb. In the Show he seems about 14. Am I wrong?

I could be insane, but I thought he was turning 14 in the book at the name day tourney this season started with; whereas he's being played closer to being 17 or 18 by an actor who is a student at Trinity College in real life. Someone feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong. I think all the kids in this show are 3 years older than their book counterparts.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

In one of the trailers you see a reaction shot of brienne and Catlyn, so I'm pretty sure we see Renly die.

[MegasAV]

Count me in as also agreeing with this. Littlefinger very much resembled his book character in this episode except in this one scene. He's far too clever and calculating to try to put the moves on Cat while she is still grieving, especially considering that Cat rightly believes he betrayed her husband. That is NOT calculating. Littlefinger is supposed to show that kind of weakness...that is not the character he is. I'm sure if he could pull it off, he WOULD eventually try to "seduce" Catelyn but not until he had convinced her that he wasn't responsible for his death and after she had mourned for her husband.

Littlefinger revealed the kind of man he was in the books when he betrayed Ned. But he was also a man to play his cards close to his vest. The sexposition monologue last season, openly mocking Cersei about her relationship with Jaime, the monlogue with Ros, and trying to seduce a recently widowed Cat are not moves Littlefinger would make. That's not the character he's supposed to be. There are plenty of other characters who would act that way but NOT Littlefinger. They don't need to be so overt as to his motivations. He's supposed to keep you guessing as to his next move.

I agree in the context of LF bringing the bones of her recently deceased husband, of which she knew he was a participant in his death, and LF stating that fate has given them another chance, is absurd.

[Ravenhair]

I thought this episode was the worst so far. My husband, who is in the middle of ASoS, is totally confused, while I just nerd rage:

1. Tyrion thought about getting Joffrey a whore, but never acted upon it. The scene with Joffrey and the whores was unnecessary. We know he's awful, and right now, he's more awful than Cersei And Theon combined.

2. I liked the setting up of the Tyrion/Sansa/Sandor thing, though when Sandor gave her his cloak, I just screamed, "Not now, damn it, not now!".

3. Arya as Tywin's cupbearer. What in the hell are the writers/directors/producers doing?

4. Harrenhal looked exactly as I imagined it. husband said the same thing.

5. Really liked Tyrion's exchange with Lancel. Peter Dinklage is great as always, and Eugene Simon did an outstanding job as Lancel.

6. The torture scenes at Harrenhal--good, but I wanted to hear the words of the interrogation, all of them? Did they really need to edit the whole "is there gold in the village?" questioning.

7. Davos is rowing Melisandre over to give birth to a shadow baby to kill Renly? Why, why, why? He despised doing it to kill Ser Cortnay Penrose, and it made us love him for hating Melisandre and for hating doing this duty for Stannis. Davos involved in Renly's death? Writers, etc. Why?

8. Hated Renly saying he loved his brother, Stannisq, once. Renly never loved Stannis and would never say this. And Stannis' offer to make him heir? So out of character given his feelings for Renly that it is laughable.

9. Margaery and Baelish have a conversation about at Renly's camp about the status of her marriage. Natalie Dormer did well, but again writers/producers, why?

10. Baelish brings Cat Ned's bones. Now the episode is bordering on being ludicrous.

11. I assume we met Jeyne Westerling tonight. If so, I like the tv version much better than the book version. Except for the fact that this Jeyne Westerling reminds me nothing of the Jeyne Westerling of the books, but hey, I'm sure the writers/directors/producers will figure out some bizarre way to deal with Sybell Spicer giving her daughter moon tea next season.

12. Qarth--was another wtf?

13. Caprice van Houten did a great job in the birthing of the shadow baby scene. First time I liked her.

14. Best things about this episode--Harrenhall and the shadow baby.

[MSUMC25]

I love what they are doing with LF. They are really foreshadowing on why he begins to plot against the Lannisters with Cersei threatening him, Tyrion's deception, and that scene with Cat when he realizes she hates him now. They are setting it up perfectly as the red wedding being the final straw for him deciding to save Sansa.

I thought for sure they were going to end it with Renly dead but that was a killer cliff hanger. People are going to be shocked next week if they haven't read the books. The shadow baby is really the first time sorcery appears in the books so it's really going to throw everyone for a loop.

I wonder if they are going to show the Battle between Edmure and Tywin Lannister at Riverrun or if it's going to be edited out?

[Jory]

And Stannis' offer to make him heir? So out of character given his feelings for Renly that it is laughable.

There was a lot I didn't like about it, but this was taken straight from the books :dunno:

[AnikaUnderfoot]

Ya, thats what I see happening as well.

If they did do it that way (just starting off the episode with Renly being dead), I wonder how the non-book audience would take it. On one hand, Stannis made it pretty clear that he was in it to win the war, and he obviously sent Davos and Mel to go do something for the war effort, but Im just curious how the non-book readers would make their connections between the shadow baby, Renly's death, and then being segued into Brienne being blamed for it.