What if Renly's army had attacked Kings Landing 1st?

[MizasterJ]

For those that obviously have read A Clash of Kings.

What if Renly's army had attacked Kings Landing 1st? Would they have been successful against the kingsguard ? would they have seized the throne? and then where would that leave Stannis? Would the war have been settled or would it have ignited further?

How would a Storm of Swords be different?

[Steelers7127]

Yup. Lannisters would have been able to team up with the Tyrell's, Renly would have took King's landing most likely, then who knows what happens with Stannis, Robb, and the Freys.

[TyrionFan82]

That'd definitely have been a game changer. So...Renly w/Highgarden would have taken KL leaaving the Lannisters out in the cold. I don't think the Kingsguard, Gold Cloaks, & Red Cloaks would have been able to stand up against them. The Gold Cloaks were very weak and undisciplined and would've broken probably. Tywin would probably have figured something out in the end, but it'd initially have fallen. As far as Stannis goes though he probably would've pressed on and continued the fight.

[Drowsey Dragon]

Stannis would have kept the fight alive for sure, but KL would have fallen. It was Tywin who saved KL from Stannis. Cercei fully expected the city would fall and they would be raped and killed in the aftermath.

I could see Robb bending the Knee to Renly perhaps or joining him against Stannis if he could remain King in the North, but that is impossible to say for sure.

[redqueen]

Tyrion wouldn't have time to make his chain so the boats wouldn't have got trapped. KL would have fell. It would have changed the game completely. Perhaps, Renly and Stannis could come to an agreement and neither brother would have died. The Lannisters would have all perished. Hopefully, Tommen and Myrcella would be elsewhere, but I doubted there would have been time to get them to safety. It would have completely changed the game.

[Blangadanger]

I think it would have been an easy victory for Renly, though I find it hard to believe that the pillaging would have been as bad as it was when the Lannisters took King's Landing from Aerys. Likely any Lannisters that survived would have been used as hostages to make Tywin bend the knee to Renly. I'm not sure if Robb would have remained King of the North once Joffrey was killed (either in battle or executed). He probably would have turned all of his attention to the Greyjoys once he received Sansa back.

[redqueen]

It would have changed the game completely. Tywin would have still been on the road. He would have got a raven that Joffrey was dead and the rest of his family was held as hostages. Robb would have sworn fealty to Renly and gone back to be Lord of Winterfell since he would have got Sansa back and his father was avenged. He would have killed Jaime since he would have been no more use as a hostage since his lords wanted Jaime dead. Cersei would have likely died trying to save her son. It's likely that Tywin's army would have been slaughtered if Renly and Stannis could have worked together.

[JonArryn]

first of all, it is made very clear that stannis and renly are not going to work together. which means that renly would have annihilated stannous troops in the storm's end, and probably gotten some of stannous banner men for his cause. then renly wouldn't have attacked by sea, but by land. which means the wildfire idea is pretty much screwed, cause it could spread to the city if you use it outside the gates. renly would have had no trouble bringing all of king's landing down, executing joffrey, maybe cersei jaime, probably not the children myrcella and tom men, doesn't seem like renly would do that. then they would have gone for twin and robb would have had his justice. another thing is that it seems like the tyrells are huge game changers, maybe they aren't the best players but they seem to have the strongest army out of the seven kingdoms, but mace tyrell is sometimes too weak. so the tyrells aiming for the throne could go pretty well for them i guess, but do they want that? who knows

[MizasterJ]

first of all, it is made very clear that stannis and renly are not going to work together. which means that renly would have annihilated stannous troops in the storm's end, and probably gotten some of stannous banner men for his cause. then renly wouldn't have attacked by sea, but by land. which means the wildfire idea is pretty much screwed, cause it could spread to the city if you use it outside the gates. renly would have had no trouble bringing all of king's landing down, executing joffrey, maybe cersei jaime, probably not the children myrcella and tom men, doesn't seem like renly would do that. then they would have gone for twin and robb would have had his justice. another thing is that it seems like the tyrells are huge game changers, maybe they aren't the best players but they seem to have the strongest army out of the seven kingdoms, but mace tyrell is sometimes too weak. so the tyrells aiming for the throne could go pretty well for them i guess, but do they want that? who knows

This brings up another godd question: Do you think Tywin would have sent his army to defend KL, if he knew Renly's army was attacking? I don't believe he would have gone without the Tyrell army backing him. Instead I believe he would have gone after Robb's army.

What do you guys think?

[TheSwordOfTheEvening]

Simple, Renly would be sitting on that iron throne). Lannisters would probably hole up in the west, with some fighting still going down. In the north, it would be a matter of how stubborn Robb is, how willing Renly would be to cede land, and the whole red wedding/ironborn invasion of the north business messing things up. But with tyrell support, renly would be quite comfortable for at least a little time. The game has a tendency to kill off kings...so not too sure how long his rule would last

[sumpthy]

I'm assuming you mean if he'd attacked King's Landing from Bitterbridge instead of marching back to Storm's End to deal with Stannis. In which case he'd probably have sat on the Iron Throne, at least temporarily.

He'd have to have marched down to Storm's End to confront Stannis eventually so I guess the same thing would have happened there. I don't know what the Tyrells would have done then. I suppose it all depends on what Renly did with the Lannisters when he captured King's Landing.

[Diehard_si]

It would of changed it that much that the story lines we are familiar with ( such as the red wedding ) would never have happened. The only story lines unaffected would be Dany and Jon.

Bear in mind the attack happed in the 2nd book, and a lot of the events we are talking about are 3rd book developments. Also i feel Renly would of attacked sooner than Stannis did. Robb wouldn't of needed to continue his crusade against the Lannisters, never meeting his wife, never being betrayed. Brienne would have stayed with Renly. Renly might have released Sansa, possibly with terms.

It would of been much less interesting to be fair.

I'd much rather consider: What if Ned was kept alive and led the North against the Lannisters, maybe taking Renlys offer for help before it all kicked off.

[JojenReed]

I think it would more or less depend on how the Lannisters would handle themselves after Renly takes KL. I couldn't really see Robb fighting against Renly (they just weren't that hostile to eachother). On the other hand Stannis would have to find another route to gain power. Robb probably would give up his Kingship to gain Renly's allegiance in retaking the north from remnants of the Ironborn. In that situation I doubt Ramsay would have dared sack Winterfell, as the opportunist he was.

[AegonTargaryen]

First post on this website. I tend to agree with some of the other posters that the "war of the five kings" would have effectively ended had Renly taken KL. The Lannisters in the city would have been murdered and Sansa would have been returned to Robb.

Robb would be inclined to "bend the knee" as they say, and the Lannisters would be unable to combat the combined power of the Starks, Baratheons and Tyrells, especially with Jaime captured and half the Lannister army routed.

With that said, the Greyjoys would never dare attack the North, and Stannis would be in an impossible position. All in all, it would have been a MUCH less interesting story.

[JojenReed]

First post on this website. I tend to agree with some of the other posters that the "war of the five kings" would have effectively ended had Renly taken KL. The Lannisters in the city would have been murdered and Sansa would have been returned to Robb.

Robb would be inclined to "bend the knee" as they say, and the Lannisters would be unable to combat the combined power of the Starks, Baratheons and Tyrells, especially with Jaime captured and half the Lannister army routed.

With that said, the Greyjoys would never dare attack the North, and Stannis would be in an impossible position. All in all, it would have been a MUCH less interesting story.

The Greyjoys had already initiated their raids and Balon had sent a letter claiming himself King of the Iron Islands and the North pre-Battle of Blackwater. With that said the Greyjoys would have probably eventually bent the knee to Renly or been destroyed. I'm still convinced Stannis may have found a way to gain more power with his red priestess.

[AegonTargaryen]

The Greyjoys had already initiated their raids and Balon had sent a letter claiming himself King of the Iron Islands and the North pre-Battle of Blackwater. With that said the Greyjoys would have probably eventually bent the knee to Renly or been destroyed. I'm still convinced Stannis may have found a way to gain more power with his red priestess.

I could see that. Even if Renly had taken KL and effectively ended the war, his murder would cause a vacuum, especially since he has no clear heir.

As far as the Greyjoys go they would be in pretty shitty shape. With Renly in King's Landing he would have demonstrated the staying power required for the Starks to openly acknowledge him as king, meaning you would have the Starks, Baratheons, Tullys and Tyrells all on the same page. The Martells could easily of been brought into the fold with the promise of Tywin and Gregors heads, and the vale would most certainly follow suit. In other words the Greyjoys and Lannisters would have been fucked. BUT, if Mel assassinated Renly anyway, anything could have happened.

On a side note It always struck me as incredibly incompetent that Robb, Renly, and Stannis were unable or unwilling to form a loose alliance to take out the Lannisters first and foremost.

[LuisDantas]

Renly would have conquered the Iron Throne with Tyrell support, but at a high price. Of course, Stannis would kill him anyway, since he had no chance of defeating him otherwise. But if Renly moved fast enough, it could deny Stannis the opportunity for stealing Renly's bannermen. Once already in King's Landing, they would be far less vulnerable to Stannis' treachery.

Which means that Stannis would either die, be exiled or give up his claim. He is only still a player because he succeeded in straying Renly's bannermen towards him.

[LuisDantas]

first of all, it is made very clear that stannis and renly are not going to work together. which means that renly would have annihilated stannous troops in the storm's end, and probably gotten some of stannous banner men for his cause. then renly wouldn't have attacked by sea, but by land. which means the wildfire idea is pretty much screwed, cause it could spread to the city if you use it outside the gates.

I beg to differ. House Redwyne, at least, supported Renly and is known to have a significant fleet. It wasn't as well positioned to invade King's Landing as Stannis' bannermen were, of course, but it could happen.

Stannis attacked by sea because he lacked the means to attack by land. His strengths, as they were, derived from having basically stolen the Iron Throne's fleet as well as gained some ships by way of Renly's bannermen (Sansa mentions Houses Estermont and both branches of House Fossoway, among others). It is reasonable to expect that House Florent and other Stannis supporters would unite in support of Renly if Stannis were defeated in battle - as he was bound to if he had not killed Renly.

And, of course, the Tyrells would be fighting against the Lannisters, which by itself would turn the tide of the battle.

renly would have had no trouble bringing all of king's landing down, executing joffrey, maybe cersei jaime, probably not the children myrcella and tom men, doesn't seem like renly would do that. then they would have gone for twin and robb would have had his justice. another thing is that it seems like the tyrells are huge game changers, maybe they aren't the best players but they seem to have the strongest army out of the seven kingdoms, but mace tyrell is sometimes too weak. so the tyrells aiming for the throne could go pretty well for them i guess, but do they want that? who knows

[DurararaFTW]

Renly would have conquered the Iron Throne with Tyrell support, but at a high price. Of course, Stannis would kill him anyway, since he had no chance of defeating him otherwise. But if Renly moved fast enough, it could deny Stannis the opportunity for stealing Renly's bannermen. Once already in King's Landing, they would be far less vulnerable to Stannis' treachery.

Which means that Stannis would either die, be exiled or give up his claim. He is only still a player because he succeeded in straying Renly's bannermen towards him.

Well he's still a player now, and the only bannermen of Renly that haven't deserted him yet are the Florents. But I agree, when Renly takes King's Landing it would be at high price, but they wouldn't burn all the royal fleets ships like Tyrion did. After King's Landing surrenders even on sea Stannis couldn't match the Royal+Redwyne fleet anymore.

[LuisDantas]

Well he's still a player now, and the only bannermen of Renly that haven't deserted him yet are the Florents.

Is that so? I admit to having a hard time following those things, but it seems to me that on the contrary, nearly all of his men were originally Renly's, including most of those currently with him as of the last chapter of ADWD. Specifically, Houses Horpe, Estermont, Errol and Varner are all but known to be Renly's men now serving Stannis. I believe House Penrose as well.

But I agree, when Renly takes King's Landing it would be at high price, but they wouldn't burn all the royal fleets ships like Tyrion did. After King's Landing surrenders even on sea Stannis couldn't match the Royal+Redwyne fleet anymore.

I tend to agree.