Quiet Isle Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 @Edwin SnowVery insightful analysis. When Cersei came to have sex with Jaime in the White Tower, Jaime couldn't get it up. When you can't get it up just as you're about to have sex with someone, it means that deep inside you actually don't want to. Jaime's attraction to Brienne came around the same time he lost his attraction to Cersei, and then his connection to Cersei shatters beyond repair when he realizes while he had been faithful to her she had been unfaithful to him. He has the loyalty that Brienne has and Cersei lacks. BINGO. and he's coming to get his son. and that's where they will fight to the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonflame Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I've been thinking that Tyrion is going to kill Cersei. I can't imagine Jamie ever killing her, even though he is begining to see that she has always taken advantage of him. I have been thinking that Brienne is going to end up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustyboy316 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I don't think Jamie will ever end up with Brienne. I think looks are important to him and he isn't sexually attracted to her... but I could be wrong. I think he'll die before he gets with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemrion Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 BINGO. and he's coming to get his son. and that's where they will fight to the death.Problem with that is the Maegi prophecy made to Cersei implies that Tommen and Myrcella will both die (because they have gold shrouds) before the valonqar chokes her to death.The prophecy states: "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds...And when your tears have drowned you the valonqar shall wrap his hands around your pale white thoart and choke the life from you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Tyrion may have a moral epiphany as he is about to kill Cersei and in desperation she may try to seduce him or have sex with him. Jaime sees this and thinks its the last straw and kills her by choking her to death. Strangling seems a more angry way of killing someone than plunging a sword through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Here are a few of my thoughts on Jamie and Cersei.Multiple times in the book Jamie and Cersei both have stated, as they looked at their twin or thought about their twin, that they are mirror images of one another. When they look at each other they have the narcissistic view of superiority about themselves. Each draw strength and their perception of self from one another because of this. Throughout their lives they have done everything they can to stay near each other because both draw their identity of self from the other.Cersei looks at Jamie and sees the power and the masculinity that is Jamie. Cersei's actions and inner dialogue have all been about the disdain she has for her gender and the lack of power that she is able to attain. With Jamie being gone so long, her source of strength and perception of strength, she has lost sight and have grown to be insecure in herself. When she is reunited with her twin shes is even further shocked because Jamie is now maimed and has no hand. Now that her "mirror" image that she has drawn strength from has an obvious weakness which turns to resentment towards him. She is left alone when the father, whom she sees as the embodiment of strength after Jamie, dies. She has turned into a fearful and paranoid person who lashes out at everyone near her. Her situation reminds me of an animal in a trap. They will lash out viciously in an attempt to be free, but in the end further ensnare themselves. Cersei is in a sense strangling herself.Jamie like Cersei drew his perception of himself from Cersei. His arrogant nature, as he always states he isnt like other men and no other man is like him, and the haughty nature that is Cersei. He has this constant belief of himself as exactly this and there is no other way to be. In walks Brienne. Whose outer appearances are nothing like his sisters, but has the exact type of character, strengths, and sense of honor that Jamie has always wanted to have and "mirror", but thought it to be out of his reach. Jamie begins to become attracted to Brienne, even though he cant understand why, because he is truly attracted to the qualities Brienne contains in herself. When he returns to see Cersei it is apparent to him that the feelings and perception of himself that he had through Cersei are no longer what he really desires. He begins a path to try and be an honorable man.Both Jamie and Cersei are beginning to pull away from one another, albeit for different reasons. Jamie a shift in ideology and Cersei because of the resentment and her constant thirst to find power that she thinks she cant obtain because of her gender. Cersei is looking for a source of strength to draw from, but isnt finding one.At first I didnt believe that Jamie wouldn't kill Cersei, but after some thought I believe it will happen. Something extreme enough hasnt happened for Jamie to shed his old perception of himself, but he is on the path to be an honorable man. In order for that to happen Cersei can no longer be apart of his life. I believe because of the downward spiraling of Cersei's sanity, she will lash out to try and bring back the source of strength and security that she had all of her life in Jamie. The thing that will be standing in between them keeping that from happening is Brienne. As much as I dont like to think about it, I think Cersei will kill Brienne, not necessarily her doing the killing herself but through someone else, in an attempt to get Jamie back. I think that this will have the opposite reaction and Jamie will kill Cersei, and fulfill the valonquar prophecy, as justice/vengeance for Brienne. Whether Jamie actually kills Cersei with his own hands or through a complete rejection of Cersei that would cause her to "strangle" herself through self destructive behavior is something that I am unsure of.Just my thoughts on this and hopefully I am not reaching too much into things!This? This is the sound of me being impressed. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 am i the only who thinks jamie not actually dying with cersie a perfect "martinesque" thing to do? complete curveball. do the opposite of whats expectedI've had the same thoughts. I mean, it's like how Tyrion is too obvious to be the valonqar. It's always stated that they will die together, so I almost think it's more likely that one will survive, and not the other. Of course, this could also just be my horrible bias talking. If Jaime survives this series, that's all I could ever ask from GRRM. :read: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Danford Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 He will return to KL fighting with his left hand for the faith to kill zombie Clegane in the trial by death, sealing her fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I think Jaime will put Cersei out of her misery when she has gone irretrievably insane. Or something tragic like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Problem with that is the Maegi prophecy made to Cersei implies that Tommen and Myrcella will both die (because they have gold shrouds) before the valonqar chokes her to death.The prophecy states: "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds...And when your tears have drowned you the valonqar shall wrap his hands around your pale white thoart and choke the life from you."I don't think that the prophesy about gold shrouds necessarily means that they will die before Cersei does. Gold is the color of House Lannister, and the mention of golden shrouds might just mean that they are no longer considered members of House Baratheon at the time of their death, but members of House Lannister.Which is a truth that Cersei could not know at the time the prophesy was made. A truth that Jaime plans to confess to Myrcella and Tommen, and possibly to the entire world. Such a confession might be enough to make Cersei drown in tears. Tears of shame and fury as that would rob her of her hold on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Targaryen Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 So, call me crazy here, but this is how I'd like to see it. Cersei, after the death of her remaining two children, locks herself somewhere in the Red Keep in this madness driven idea that if she locks herself away, Tyrion cannot get to her. Jaime returns to find out his remaining two children died. He goes to her and she lets him in, thinking that it's Jaime, he will never hurt her. (I think she still has this train of thought following ADWD at least, I can't remember.)He coldly confronts her, stating that she let his children die. She starts sobbing, blaming this person and that person, and tells him that they can always have more. They'll run away and be a real family. He moves in to comfort her, only to strangle her, then leaves her corpse all alone. I know there's mentions of them being born together, they're destined to die together, but I don't want Jaime to die. At least not by Cersei. Though a hidden dagger or something like that on her person is something she'd do, especially if she's become completely paranoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinket2 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Murder-suicide.Cersei thinks that the "valonquar will wrap his hands" part is about Tyrion murdering her, but I think it will be Jaime killing her and that he'll do it because she'll ask him to.Cersei will be broken and all her children dead, and will have given up. It is likely that Jaime will die at the same time, I think- after all they "came into this world together and will leave it together", which is the reason I think they'll be in a bad place where there's pretty much no hope for Jaime getting out alive (for example if he's sick or wounded or they're pretty much surrounded by Others/wights). Which is why I think it'll be a murder-suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Long Lake Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So, call me crazy here, but this is how I'd like to see it. Cersei, after the death of her remaining two children, locks herself somewhere in the Red Keep in this madness driven idea that if she locks herself away, Tyrion cannot get to her. Jaime returns to find out his remaining two children died. He goes to her and she lets him in, thinking that it's Jaime, he will never hurt her. (I think she still has this train of thought following ADWD at least, I can't remember.)He coldly confronts her, stating that she let his children die. She starts sobbing, blaming this person and that person, and tells him that they can always have more. They'll run away and be a real family. He moves in to comfort her, only to strangle her, then leaves her corpse all alone. I know there's mentions of them being born together, they're destined to die together, but I don't want Jaime to die. At least not by Cersei. Though a hidden dagger or something like that on her person is something she'd do, especially if she's become completely paranoid.This has been my thinking too. I think Cersei will be indirectly responsible for her kids dying and Jaime will strangle her. She's made a lot of bad choices and someone she used or abused will take their vengeance on Tommen or Marcella.I could imagine Jaime strangling her with her hair, the golden locks that she is so proud of ( if enough time has passed for her to grow long hair again !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top12Gun Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 With Fire and Blood, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I'll put in another vote for the murder then suicide option. Their children will be dead and their situation dire and neither will have much to live for anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Baratheon Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Stannis: "You were lucky Tywin saved you at the Blackwater."Cersei: *Gropes at Stannis' manhood* *her fingers break*Stannis: "Now that's twice you've failed at seducing men of honour. B)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Carmack Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I agree with the "Romeo and Juliet" scenario where Jaime kills Cersei, just before he dies himself. I see it playing out with Cersei playing the role of the "Mad Queen", and Jaime killing her AND sacrificing himself for the greater good of KL. I do believe that Jaime will view his role in Cersei's death as his ultimate "honorable" deed as a knight.I also would like Dany to meet Cersei face-to-face before Cersei's downfall. I don't believe that Margery Tyrell is the "younger, more beautiful queen" that was prophesied to Cersei... But that Dany T will ultimately fill that role.... "With Fire and Blood", naturally. :)I agree. GRRM has mentioned redemption as one of the themes of the series. Although it would be interesting if Jaime is in the position to save everyone by killing her, but in the end isn't strong-willed enough to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekd Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 More evidence points to Tyrion. Tyrion joins a mercenery company called the second sons. So the little brother is a brother of the little brothers.Of course, theres also another little brother thats not been mentioned in this thread yet- Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I don't think Jamie will ever end up with Brienne. I think looks are important to him and he isn't sexually attracted to her... but I could be wrong. You are wrong. He is strongly attracted to her despite finding her rather repulsive. Kinky. Read the bath scene! I think he'll die before he gets with anyone.Most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I just had a thought. What if Jamie kills Cersei for the same reason he killed Aerys: she expresses her intent to burn down King's Landing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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