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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Who is Talisa?

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The press info and so on all have the actress listed as Jeyne.

They did but not any more. In fact, it sounds like the producers had not decided how to do the Jeyne/Robb storyline and cast Oona on the grounds she could play Jeyne or a replacement love interest if necessary. All the stuff about her playing 'Jeyne' comes from her initial casting before the start of filming.

I see several possibilities for who she is:

1) What she appears to be: a woman from Volantis who has come to Westeros and ended up as a doctor/healer. Robb chance-meets her, they fall in love, and he marries her, breaking his vow to the Freys because he's feared he might have fathered a bastard (and doesn't want to put any potential child through what Jon went through).

2) She's really Jeyne Westerling, trading on her family background (in the novels, Jeyne's family on her mother's side is from the Free Cities) to create a new identity for herself. She may have simply decided to help in the war effort, or she may have run away from home for some reason (escaping a terrible marriage match?) and gone undercover.

3) She's really Jeyne Lannister. I count this as highly unlikely as Tywin would not let even a remote cadet branch of the family have members serving in minor roles on the battlefield. "Lannisters don't act like fools." I discount the possibility she could have been slipped into the Stark camp deliberately, as Oxcross was a surprise attack and the Lannisters had no way of knowing the Starks were coming.

4) She's really Jeyne or Talisa Hill, a bastard daughter of House Lannister by a Volantene woman (maybe via one of Tywin's missing/dead brothers, with the timeline tweaked appropriately?). This is a more intriguing possibility as it explains how she might have an active role as a battlefield doctor without disgracing her family, and it explains how she's simultaneously from Volantis but knows a lot about the Westerlands.

No matter the truth, there is a tantalising clue in the fact that:

An upcoming episode lists Jaime as being surprised to meet a family member. Presumably this isn't Alton, who has already met Jaime several times in the camp offscreen, so some have assumed that Jeyne/Talisa is a distant cousin and may play a role in his failed rescue (before Catelyn releases him properly).

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My first thought was that it's Jeyne. Then I thought it doesn't make sense. And then she says her name so I was kind of relieved. Hope it isn't, though those looks Robb was giving her do worry me. He's not subtle at all.

Speaking of which, what's with him getting turned on by the sight of her sawing a man's leg off. Can't think of a less sexy sight.

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I think there are already enough characters around to give non-book readers a hard time remembering them all and their names. To introduce a new character with a fake name is unnecessary. Why didn't they just call her "Jeyne Spicer"? Jeyne is a pretty common name in Westeros after all.

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she is jeyne, you can see rob kissing her in one of the trailers for season 2, the question is what last name they will give her in the series, westerling, lannister or a volantenes...

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They did but not any more.

... more good info ...

So I see. Most of the interviews, etc, still use Jeyne, but that must be a holdover, or an assumption about the character. She does have one quote that's a little ambiguous, but she could be talking about how others refer to her character, to -- it's something to the effect of "There have been a lot of questions about the Jeyne I play, but I can't clarify here."

Interestingly enough, we know she does have a second name*, based on info in Ran & Linda's most recent interview with Richard Madden, but it's something he found very difficult to pronounce -- so (unless he's misdirecting everyone) it's unlikely to be Jeyne or Westerling. ;)

*Full second name, like Jeyne Westerling / Talisa the Volantene, or first name - second name like Talisa <something traditionally Volantene-sounding>? I figured more like the first, even if it's not a name we expect, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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It was not so important in the books exactly *who* Jeyne was, simply that Robb marrying her was humiliating to the Freys. Robb marrying a commoner, and a foreigner, would be *even more* humiliating to the Freys than a noble daughter of a minor house. So this makes it clearer to the viewer what he did wrong, and also makes him more sympathetic; marrying for love instead of a "suitable" girl. Jeyne Westerling would have been "suitable" if he hadn't been betrothed, even if not a very advantageous match. So this change (if it is a change) makes perfect sense.

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I just can't see why exactly Robb would be attracted to her. She's pretty enough, sure, but the whole questioning his authority and his intelligence can't be THAT much of a turn-on for Robb that he'd abandon his duties. His initial attraction to Jeyne Westerling came off-page, we didn't really need to know the exact motives behind him falling for Jeyne, we just understood there was genuine affection between two young fools. I'm not getting that vibe between Robb and "Talisa". He's coming across as a bit of a tool.

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I just can't see why exactly Robb would be attracted to her. She's pretty enough, sure,

Jeyne Westerling in the books wasn't any more special. A pretty girl who loved him. That's all there was to it. Robb *was* a fool to risk his kingdom for her.

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I don't particularly care who this character turns out to be in the end as long as the dialog becomes less painful. (Please don't start me on how the guy's leg would have had the TIME to get infected enough to start rotting.) It is clear that 'Talisa' is a Jeyne equivalent.

Are the writers trying to convince us that Robb breaking his promise to the Freys and marrying someone else is less of a dumb decision because the object of his affection is a strong female character? Because the girl has political opinions and can hack a leg off someone, it might make her a far more forgivable match for the TV viewers than Robb falling into the sweet book!Jeyne's vagenda ©.

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As much as I liked Richard Madden and Oona Chaplin's acting and chemistry ... I really hated the scene. I'm pretty sure Martin said in an interview how much he hated the scenario that this scene depicts: a common-born girl sassing a king. That would not have happened in reality, and it would not have happened in the books.

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Yeah, I actually laughed throughout the whole scene since the whole setting seemed totally out-of-character for Robb, and the scene itself completely atypical for Westeros. Robb would not give a damn for the life of peasants, not his own, and most certainly not those in Lord Tywin's employ. Also, he did have a plan of sorts what to do after the war. He had declared himself King in the North. If nothing else, he would have fought against anyone threatening the sovereignty of his new kingdom.

And I'm also quite sure that Robb would have claimed the Iron Throne if Renly and Stannis had destroyed each other, and he had won the war against Tywin and taken King's Landing.

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Yeah, I actually laughed throughout the whole scene since the whole setting seemed totally out-of-character for Robb, and the scene itself completely atypical for Westeros. Robb would not give a damn for the life of peasants, not his own, and most certainly not those in Lord Tywin's employ. Also, he did have a plan of sorts what to do after the war. He had declared himself King in the North. If nothing else, he would have fought against anyone threatening the sovereignty of his new kingdom.

And I'm also quite sure that Robb would have claimed the Iron Throne if Renly and Stannis had destroyed each other, and he had won the war against Tywin and taken King's Landing.

God yes! Robb would be a completely stupid to marry some Volantene trollop...He was stupid to marry Jeyne Westerling, but he would be a retard to marry Talissa.

Personally I think Robb secretly believed that the Freys were not likely to produce suitable queen material (remember that joke of Daven Lannisters), and found Jeyne Westerling's virtues (chastity, honour, compassion) inherently more appealing both in a wife and in a queen.

Where as I can't see anybody finding some peasant who schizophrenically questions the basis of ones society as attractive...

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if you happen to be Jeyne not know what you are doing there, because they are supposed to know when Robb besieges the castle, this story is out of the book, because in the book she is the daughter of one of the vassal of the Lannister, not to mention a healer or something

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I've carefully read all the posts and am still trying to logically reason out why they would go through the trouble of changing her name, her chracter and the entire story line of the Westerlings (or drop it entirely) and then still add a second character / plot that never happened in its place? This makes zero sense!

They added Ros and other characters as 'plot devices' to help reveal some parts of the story not on screen that happened in the books. I'm fine with that.

They changed names like Asha to Yara so people wouldn't be "confused" - ok whatever, I can live with that.

They've cut out some characters who do not play major roles in the plot in numerous areas, and I'm ok with that, understanding budget and time constraints for that many to cast.

But changing the entire character of who Robb Stark marries to some unknown woman? I just don't see how that helps the story or makes it more believable than what was actually written. Sure, the main focal point is that he betrays the promise made to Lord Frey as agreement for letting them cross the river, we all know that. But another important aspect of the story was that this girl was a Westerling, and a minor house under the Lannisters which complicated matters a LOT more than if he had just married some no name common girl from Volantis.

I cannot believe they would think this is a smart plot change at all. I'm going to keep hoping they decided to change her name from Jeyne Westerling to Talisa Westerling.

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Personally, I found book-Jeyne to be a twit, and for the life of me, I never saw what Robb saw in her. At her core, she was nothing more than a Robb fangirl. It always felt like, to me, Robb was more in love with Jeyne's unwavering support of him than Jeyne herself. I'd personally find this character Oona is playing much more attractive. She's strong -- she probably reminds him of his sister Arya -- and she has courage.

Why should Robb be an elitist douche, at least so far as being above conversations with lowly "peasants" -- if she even truly turns out to be a peasant. I imagine Ned taught him better than that. Arya certainly wasn't above playing with peasants...she seemed to prefer them. IMO, had GRRM wrote this scene, I don't feel as if there would be so much irritation with it. But, because the show wrote a scene where Robb mingled with an apparent lowborn, it goes against all etiquette.

An earlier poster brought up a good point. Richard Madden did mention a second name, which he couldn't pronounce -- I passed over it on my first read-thru and missed the importance. I can't imagine him having a hard time pronouncing "Jeyne," but it seems to confirm that Talisa will have another name.

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In the book, Robb is caught in the honey trap. They arrange for him to be alone with a beautiful young girl, and then they leave him no choice. He can either marry Jeyne Westerling or dishonor her. And Robb is not the type to dishonor the beautiful maiden daughter of an ancient and noble house.

But the deciding factor why Robb Stark deflowered Jeyne Westerling apparently was the news about the alleged deaths of Bran and Rickon. He heard about it right after he had taken the Crag, and this left him vulnerable. That's why he let Jeyne 'comfort' him.

Robb Stark was not as stupid in the books to let some woman distract him from his duty. Had he not been hurt physically and emotionally, he would never have allowed 'love' to interfere with his duty. He was already betrothed to a woman.

In the series they will play this whole thing totally cliché. The hero is going to meet his true love (perhaps a lowborn girl, perhaps a noble girl disguised as a lowborn girl, but anyway, she'll have a heart of gold, and all). If they end up changing the whole Jeyne-background as well (i.e. Tywin's intrigues to prevent Robb from fathering a legitimate heir) I really don't see what this is going to have to do with the story. Jeyne Westerling was poison, she was the very thing that destroyed Robb Stark and his kingdom. She was an unwitting pawn, of course, but nevertheless, Lady Sybelle and her brother are most likely the actual important characters here.

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In the book, Robb is caught in the honey trap. They arrange for him to be alone with a beautiful young girl, and then they leave him no choice. He can either marry Jeyne Westerling or dishonor her. And Robb is not the type to dishonor the beautiful maiden daughter of an ancient and noble house.

But the deciding factor why Robb Stark deflowered Jeyne Westerling apparently was the news about the alleged deaths of Bran and Rickon. He heard about it right after he had taken the Crag, and this left him vulnerable. That's why he let Jeyne 'comfort' him.

Robb Stark was not as stupid in the books to let some woman distract him from his duty. Had he not been hurt physically and emotionally, he would never have allowed 'love' to interfere with his duty. He was already betrothed to a woman.

But, the fact remains that he did act in a dishonorable way -- whether deflowering the virgin, or breaking a pact. He chose to rectify the former, which turned out to be the worst possible decision. The Westerlings were not a powerful House, and furthermore, they were Lannister bannermen. Robb's last concern should've been appeasing a smaller House in the Westerlands when he had the North to rule and alliances with his mother's Riverlands to foster. So, regardless of honor, Robb chose Jeyne because he wanted to choose Jeyne, IMO. At the end of the day, he chose the girl over the important alliance. It should've been no contest. If we're to take Jaime's description of Jeyne, she wasn't exactly the best trap to fall in, anyway -- a pretty girl, but nothing to lose a war over.

In the series they will play this whole thing totally cliché. The hero is going to meet his true love (perhaps a lowborn girl, perhaps a noble girl disguised as a lowborn girl, but anyway, she'll have a heart of gold, and all). If they end up changing the whole Jeyne-background as well (i.e. Tywin's intrigues to prevent Robb from fathering a legitimate heir) I really don't see what this is going to have to do with the story. Jeyne Westerling was poison, she was the very thing that destroyed Robb Stark and his kingdom. She was an unwitting pawn, of course, but nevertheless, Lady Sybelle and her brother are most likely the actual important characters here.

This Robb and Talisa arc, IMO, is no more a cliche than Jon Snow with his forbidden Wildling. Ironically enough, Robb/Talisa (should she be who she claims) is almost like a remix of Jon/Ygritte. I guess my point is, it wasn't like the novels were immune to these types of arcs...so, somehow characterizing this arc as indicative of the sacrilegious nature of television is interesting to me. I guess my point is, it wasn't like the novels were immune to these types of arcs...so, somehow characterizing this arc as some bastardization of GRRM's writing is interesting to me.

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Well, Jon and Ygritte are cliché because of the whole 'forbidden love thing', but Robb and his girl are apparently going to bridge the class differences (or, if she is going to turn out to be a Lannister/western noble girl) the friend-foe-differences. But whereas Jon and Ygritte were always a tragic love destined to fail, they never were a formal relationship (i.e. marriage). Jon was in no position to reject Ygritte. Robb obviously is (and will be) in book and series.

Robb apparently only fell in love with Jeyne because he received the news about Bran and Rickon. Had that not happened, he might still have been attracted to her, but he would not have consummated the marriage. And I'm quite sure Sybelle arranged things and 'surprised' Robb and Jeyne while they had sex to force Robb to make a decision. They played him very well...

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Makes sense that she's Jeyne, Im fairly certain that in the books, Robb tells Cat that Jeyne nurses him from injuries he sustains in battle. I think they;ve just added a scene with an (unnamed) Jeyne meeting Robb, and showing that she's able in helping the injured and setting it up for a later scene when she's treating Robb (now knowing what he looks like)

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I've carefully read all the posts and am still trying to logically reason out why they would go through the trouble of changing her name, her chracter and the entire story line of the Westerlings (or drop it entirely) and then still add a second character / plot that never happened in its place? This makes zero sense!

I think she's meant to be "the voice of the people" - a female commoner that is neither a prostitute nor a maid.

Which is not too out of place for the story, since there's a recurring theme that even the nicest nobles don't really give a crap about the peasants. She's there to rub into Robb's face the fact that he's exchanging the life and health of thousands of commoners for the honour of his house and the life of his sisters.

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