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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Who is Talisa?

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Really hated the dialogue, partly because I hate this type of speech pattern

"How are you?"

"How do you think I am?"

"it's going to be a beautiful day."

"it's always a beautiful day..."

"err...okay....I'd like for us to go out sometime."

"Yes, you would like for us to go out sometime."

"Yeah, okay, I'm done."

"You ARE done."

Apologies, but that's the closest example I can make. Words fail me, it's sort of like jousting if you know what I mean. Really stilted conversation that basically slows things to a crawl.

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If she does turn out to be "Talisa" or whoever, and not Jeyne Westerling, I don't like the future ramifications it has in the story. Tywin's involvement with the RW, the Spicers, Jeyne possibly being pregnant and her futur role in the series..all eliminated or altered significantly. It is too soon to tell, but I don't like the idea as of yet.

Plus I thought the conversation had very weak and cliche' writing. I rolled my eyes at it. Also there is no way Roose Bolton would let this nurse talk back to him.

Overall, not impressed.

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Yeah, I actually laughed throughout the whole scene since the whole setting seemed totally out-of-character for Robb, and the scene itself completely atypical for Westeros. Robb would not give a damn for the life of peasants, not his own, and most certainly not those in Lord Tywin's employ. Also, he did have a plan of sorts what to do after the war. He had declared himself King in the North. If nothing else, he would have fought against anyone threatening the sovereignty of his new kingdom.

And I'm also quite sure that Robb would have claimed the Iron Throne if Renly and Stannis had destroyed each other, and he had won the war against Tywin and taken King's Landing.

It's actually not so out-of-character as that. The Lannisters do not give a damn about the life of peasants, but Eddard Stark instilled a different ethos in his household:

Her father used to say that a lord needed to eat with his men, if he hoped to keep them. "Know the men who follow you," she heard him tell Robb once, "and let them know you. Don't ask your men to die for a stranger." At Winterfell, he always had an extra seat set at his own table, and every day a different man would be asked to join him. One night it would be Vayon Poole, and the talk would be coppers and bread stores and servants. The next time it would be Mikken, and her father would listen to him go on about armor and swords and how hot a forge should be and the best way to temper steel. Another day it might be Hullen with his endless horse talk, or Septon Chayle from the library, or Jory, or Ser Rodrick, or even Old Nan with her stories.

It makes sense that Robb would be following his father's advice by taking a more hands-on approach while walking the battle field after the battle, and helping tend the wounded. Likewise, if our 'Talissa' is actually a noble-woman in disguise, it makes sense why she would seem so pert in talking to Robb. Considering how many southerners look down on the Northerners as being more backwards, a minor noble in the south may feel they are on a level with the rebel King of the North.

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We never did get to see in the books how the Jeyne-Robb romance developed and we only saw Jeyne a couple of times in Cats PoV. I would prefer for the show to fill in a blankspot in the books. I hope the TV show doesn't stray to far from the book in this instance.

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... Also there is no way Roose Bolton would let this nurse talk back to him.

Overall, not impressed.

Exactly! In general, peasants do not speak to lords, much less kings, like that (actually, they seldom speak to them at all). They could have their tongue ripped out for the insolence! And, now that I think of it, I recently re-read the scene where Roose Bolton gets to Harrenhal and talks to Arya for the first time... Arya forgets to say "my lord" a couple of times (though her answers are polite) and Bolton points out that when talking to him she'll call him "my lord".

I think she was being far too cheeky being that she was not only a peasant (or pretending to be), but a woman also. She either has a death wish, or really fails to see the danger she's in. Cersei, Arya and Asha can get away with such things because, well, they are very special cases... but most other women/girls in Westeros? I think not...

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I agreee with most everything you said, silly scene and I do not like that Jayne is not a sweet, shy highborn maid anymore, but questioning the king. Peasant girls simply do not speak to highborns like that. I cannot imagine her being afraid of Greywind, I wish he were there in the scene to see his reaction.

I am afraid Robb will not get wounded now, they are making him too much of a hero, I think. She will just keep nagging him all the time and mix his head.

But apparently, she is a completely new character, as saind by Madden in the interwiew and now even the wiki says:

Talisa of Volantis is a healer from Volantis. She only appears in the TV series. She replaces Jeyne Westerling as the love interest and wife of King Robb Stark. She is played by Oona Chaplin.

Whoever she is, the actress looks like how I always envisioned Asha Greyjoy.

:agree: Word.

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I think she is Jeyne Westerling, I just figured they changed her name, as not to confuse people later with Jeyne Poole if and when she shows up.

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This Talisa character really confused me as well, but by the way they were looking at one another, I think she's supposed to be Jeyne, maybe another name change like Yara/Asha?

I have no idea why they keep changing names of side characters. I also don't understand why she's on the battlefield tending the wounded. In the books, she nursed Robb back to health after an injury which is when he fell in love with her. We had no details prior to that, so I'm guessing they decided to write this scene in to show how adept she is at being a field nurse?

The Asha was changed to Yara because the producers thought it would confuse with Osha, previously introduced with Bran. So there was a good reason for that change at least... although I suspect Jeyne will end up being Jeyne once all is said and done.

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I think she was being far too cheeky being that she was not only a peasant (or pretending to be), but a woman also. She either has a death wish, or really fails to see the danger she's in. Cersei, Arya and Asha can get away with such things because, well, they are very special cases... but most other women/girls in Westeros? I think not...

She's a foreigner. Looking at the wiki, Volantis is not as hierarchical as Westeros. It even has a primitive form of democracy (if you are a male landowner)

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She's a foreigner. Looking at the wiki, Volantis is not as hierarchical as Westeros. It even has a primitive form of democracy (if you are a male landowner)

Her talking back like that is still a very foolish thing to do, you need to adapt your way of speaking to the present situation. Her being from Volantis doesn't quite excuse it... you'd assume she knows something about the customs of Westeros. But, my problem isn't exactly the fact that she's being cheeky, it's rather that everyone else seems to be fine with it.

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Her talking back like that is still a very foolish thing to do, you need to adapt your way of speaking to the present situation. Her being from Volantis doesn't quite excuse it... you'd assume she knows something about the customs of Westeros. But, my problem isn't exactly the fact that she's being cheeky, it's rather that everyone else seems to be fine with it.

Lucky she tried it on Robb, who no doubt has a reputation for affability, and also has a family reputation for fair-dealings with commoners. If she'd tried it on Roose Bolton she'd have lost her tongue, if she was lucky. Did she know Robb by reputation, or was she just lucky in her choice of target? No doubt we will find out.

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She's a foreigner. Looking at the wiki, Volantis is not as hierarchical as Westeros. It even has a primitive form of democracy (if you are a male landowner)

Even then, it's pretty damn hierarchical. It's one of the only Free Cities that is actually a slave city. We saw how rigid the hierarchy was when Tyrion visited Volantis in ADWD. In Volantis, if a slave ever did what Talisa did, the punishment would be beyond horrible. There might not be any slaves in Westeros, but there are serfs and serfs are no different.

The anti-Talisa posters here are not, as some may think, aggrieved elitists. I obviously don't think medieval society was particularly fair or admirable, but when I'm watching a TV show that's about a very realistically portrayed medieval society, I want the story to maintain that integrity. Talisa mouthing off to the King in the North is especially jarring for that reason.

This whole commoner-sassing-the-nobleman thing is a problem mainly because it's a well known staple of cheap romance novels, to the point where P.G. Wodehouse once parodied it hilariously in one of his Jeeves stories. And like others have pointed out, it would not happen in Westeros. Very few nobles ever care about the peasants. Arya is an exception that way - if you remember, even Jon Snow was an elitist douchebag when he first went to the Wall. Tyrion is only nice to commoners insofar as he has use for them (which still makes him better than 99% of his peers), and I think Ned's advice to Robb is being misconstrued.

Ned was advising Robb about how to treat his retainers, not random peasants. He didn't say "Invite random citizens of the winter town to sit at your table" or "Once a week you must ride out into the winter town, share a meal with a different family each week, and hear their thoughts and stories and problems." Ned is specifically saying that Robb must make himself accessible to the men he commands within his own household and/or army.

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Even then, it's pretty damn hierarchical. It's one of the only Free Cities that is actually a slave city. We saw how rigid the hierarchy was when Tyrion visited Volantis in ADWD. In Volantis, if a slave ever did what Talisa did, the punishment would be beyond horrible. There might not be any slaves in Westeros, but there are serfs and serfs are no different.

Talisa doesn't appear to be a slave, though. Volantis seems to be a place where the hierarchy has a sharp line between slave and free, but if you are free, there's a flatter social structure than Westeros.

I guess you could think of her like a white American from Virginia moving to England in the 18th century. She'd be shocked at the strict social hierarchy in England, and contrast it negatively with her homeland, without necessarily understanding that she was one of the privileged back there.

If we are lucky, they might even bring this up. Tyrion mentions at one point in the books that the conditions of serfs in Westeros are very little different to the conditions of slaves in the free cities.

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Lucky she tried it on Robb, who no doubt has a reputation for affability, and also has a family reputation for fair-dealings with commoners. If she'd tried it on Roose Bolton she'd have lost her tongue, if she was lucky. Did she know Robb by reputation, or was she just lucky in her choice of target? No doubt we will find out.

She did try it on Roose. He said to her something like "your skills should be used on our people,not this cub", and she threw back "I am not your people" or something lame like that. Bolton just shrugs it off and doesn't respond. I doubt he would do that...highly doubt it!

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She did try it on Roose. He said to her something like "your skills should be used on our people,not this cub", and she threw back "I am not your people" or something lame like that. Bolton just shrugs it off and doesn't respond. I doubt he would do that...highly doubt it!

Did she? I didn't really notice Bolton in that scene... no doubt he will be more obvious later on!

Also presumably he was with Robb who is his liege and earlier told him to hold off on the torture... he might act differently alone.

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I think she's a likely Jeyne Westerling replacement. A sort of mystifying replacement, unless the producers think the whole Spicer/Westerling treachery subplot is too difficult for TV viewers to understand?

Well for some book readers/TV viewers Jeyne hiding her identity from Robb was too difficult to understand so I suppose you never know...

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Talisa doesn't appear to be a slave, though. Volantis seems to be a place where the hierarchy has a sharp line between slave and free, but if you are free, there's a flatter social structure than Westeros.

I agree that Talisa doesn't appear to be a slave - Westeros has no slaves, so even if she had been brought from Volantis as a slave, she would automatically be free here. What I meant though, was that in Westeros, being a serf meant that you were basically as powerless as a slave (and as you said, Tyrion mentions this as well). If we look at the helpless way Westeros peasants endure plundering, murder, torture and sexual violence at the hands of knights, lords and sellswords, it really starts to look like there is no meaningful difference between a "free" yeoman and a slave.

The only way they find agency is when they become outlaws or when they move up the social ladder either through becoming a merchant, or getting knighted, or finding a place in a lord's household - which is similar to Volantene slaves either winning their freedom or escaping.

Maybe you can argue that Talisa hasn't yet appreciated the similarities between a Westerosi peasant and a Volantene slave, but I really doubt the show is going to explore that - not enough time, for one, and there's no point exploring a new side plot if it doesn't involve Ros!

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Maybe you can argue that Talisa hasn't yet appreciated the similarities between a Westerosi peasant and a Volantene slave, but I really doubt the show is going to explore that - not enough time, for one, and there's no point exploring a new side plot if it doesn't involve Ros!

Well, maybe Robb and Talisa can debate political philosophy while in bed. That should be enough sexposition for the producers of the show! :)

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What I am really afraid is that this will be a fast forward love romance and this Talisa and Robb will fall in love because......the plot needs them to be in love.

After what they have done so far with Robb´s story.....I am just afraid that Robb will look even more dumb then he did in the books (and this was no easy task to start with!!!!).

If they wanted someone really fierce....they could get some Lannister young girl who would be upset because her castle had been sacked or something.....this girl would fit a lot more on the Jeyne storyline and could be a lot more proud, have a lot more attitude...if that was the kind of woman they think Robb should be after.

As people are calling Talisa on other boards....this Florence Bonesaw just seems to arrive out of the Cliche Land of uninteresting characters.....she may as well have arrived holding a Greenpeace flag and charge Robb on AnimalRight´s issues because he takes his pet into battles......

But I am still enjoying the show :) Really am!!!!! Just some choices are like....facepalm.....but whatever! If they think it works, at least we will also see a lot of the good old story we love :)

Ahhh.....and by the way....Robb is still moving on and no one cares to tell us what´s the deal with the Tullys. I am still ok that they dont want to show Riverrun this season. I am still ok that they dont want to cast more relevant characters. But it would be nice for someone to tell what the hell is happening with the Tullys and why are they not a part of this story at the moment......because......because.....there is war in the Riverlands......i suppose someone could be saying something like "Lord Tywin is fallling back behind Lord Edmure Tully"...and then people would be like "aaahhhhaaaaa...so here they are! they are fighting back the Lannisters!".....or......some extra knights arriving as reinforcements to Robb´s host with some cool sigils like we have seen at the Inn last season.....and again we would be like "Nice timming! good to see you guys are still in this story! Ok, we get it that the big sharks are staying home but there are Tully forces moving around". But alas....the decision seems to be.....we will just not mention the Tullys anymore and we really really hope no one will notice untill we get them back into the story for season 3. Hmmmm.....i think it will be a bit odd......just saying my thoughts

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