[Book Spoilers] Joffrey and the whores

[Guest]

OTOH, if their plan was just to make the audience uncomfortable, then mission accomplished;

I think that was the plan, but making audiences uncomfortable has been going on for a long time in drama. To my mind D&D aren't contributing anything new to the art form but they are trying to see how far they can go with this--pushing our buttons, hoping that it makes us examine our own lives and wrestle with things. You know, to be provocative, maybe? I think the sex, violence, and violent sex is a mode of action for them--it's not the goal. In this last dreary ep, they seem like they're trying to revive the Grand Guignol. Fantasy that's the lowest of the low to contrast the high. A theater of cruelty.

[Holmes]

Well any way you slice it, they wont be able to top GRRM vis a vis the famous ADWD scene. So I say delete Roz and skewer rabbits.

[flame7926]

My dad who watches the show already hates Joffrey and he might stop watching because of this, just too graphic and gratuitous.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Who are you delicate flowers who thought this scene was just "way too much"?

Scary? Yes. Disturbing? Of course. Beyond the pale??? Hardly... you don't actually see anything. They didn't even do what everyone THOUGHT they'd do with that torture instrument. Remember, this is HBO where hookers were routinely beaten and murdered with bare hands on "The Sopranos" and "The Wire"

I can't believe any reader of a series of books so violent, gruesome and depraved as ASoIaF would balk at the *off screen* beating of a prostitute. Really? That's the most shocking thing that's ever happened in all of Westeros? Re-read Arya's chapters in ACoK and ASoS and tell me that again.....

[Dragon of Valyria]

It wasn't even the most gruesome thing in the episode, actually. The Tickler was far worse, if you really think about it.

[Brucolac]

For me, it is just a problem of what you dedice to spend screen time on. I think creating a scene with the whores over using the one with rabbits was a poor choice, and i do think it was to fill a nudity quota. I don't have a problem with that as much as I have a problem with selection, and no I didn't want want to see Sansa stripped and beaten more severly-I wanted to see Joffrey trying to shoot rabbits with a crossbow. Not only is it cruel, it is the wrong tool for the task, and he his bad at it, which pretty much sums him up perfectly.

[teemo]

Who are you delicate flowers who thought this scene was just "way too much"?

Scary? Yes. Disturbing? Of course. Beyond the pale??? Hardly... you don't actually see anything. They didn't even do what everyone THOUGHT they'd do with that torture instrument. Remember, this is HBO where hookers were routinely beaten and murdered with bare hands on "The Sopranos" and "The Wire"

I can't believe any reader of a series of books so violent, gruesome and depraved as ASoIaF would balk at the *off screen* beating of a prostitute. Really? That's the most shocking thing that's ever happened in all of Westeros? Re-read Arya's chapters in ACoK and ASoS and tell me that again.....

I was actually disappointed that it didn't go further than that. Like I suggested earlier, Joff killing Ros with a crossbow and sending her head to Tyrion would have been great. Not only would Ros be gone and mission accomplished of Joffrey being evil (duh), but it would have been a big FU to Tyrion, which is what he wanted. But there will probably be more to add to this little story next week. IIRC, in the promos it showed Joffrey kind of torturing or doing something to Ros that was making her cry. Maybe he will kill her. There's always hope.

[The Second Hand]

I agree with this too. There wasn't really any need to strip Sansa's dress completely down to her waist as was done in the book. The idea is to convey that she's being really cruelly abused and humiliated in front of the entire court - and the scene certainly conveyed that without any doubt.

It didn't help, though, that there was an overhead shot that featured only five people. So not that many people...

[teemo]

Yeah, it couldn't have hurt to add a few more people in there to add to the humiliation.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I agree. The throne room should have been more full than that. When I read that chapter in the book I assumed that most of the Royal Court was witness to it and did nothing, which adds to the disgrace of the scene.

[Dragon of Valyria]

Have we ever seen a properly full court? The throne room scenes have always seemed rather sparse.

[The Second Hand]

That, my friend, is called budget. A concept that sometimes dawns, but apparently not at others.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Damn, I'm sure they could find a few free extras to do those throne room scenes. Probably a lot of people would do this just to be in an episode of a top cable show.

[miguel sanchez]

I thought it was a great scene. There are so many excellent cases in the book of Joffrey's despicable, cowardly, heartless abuses of authority that haven't been in the show. This scene nicely made up for it. With the added bonus of the Joffrey/Tyrion tension beginning to rise.

I did NOT like Joffrey ordering the killing the bastards notion, simply for the fact that it reeeeeaaallly should have been Cersei to give that order.

I guess they're saving some big reveals about Cersei's wickedness for

later on when she sends innocent and already grieving people down to Qyburn to be tortured

[Brucolac]

I don't think we are going to se sociopath Cersei- they have portrayed her in a more sympothetic light since episode 1.

[The Second Hand]

Damn, I'm sure they could find a few free extras to do those throne room scenes. Probably a lot of people would do this just to be in an episode of a top cable show.

It's a SAG thing. You can't put someone in a costume, have them film for nine hours, and then not pay them. Even if they aren't with SAG, it's incredibly immoral and essentially cruel. However, the budget on this show is always going to be a problem -- mainly because the budget is directly affected by the inconsistency of David and Dan. I guarantee that Blackwater will be, in total, five or six minutes of loud fighting, one or two tracking shots, and a final overview of the ships laying in crumbles. Then, an unnamed soldier will shout some exposition -- the outcome of the battle -- and then that's the end.

Sorry. That was a monologue.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I don't think we are going to se sociopath Cersei- they have portrayed her in a more sympothetic light since episode 1.

Once Joffrey and Tywin die and Tyrion flees to Essos, Cersei is completely left to her own devices with no check on her ever growing madness. The season that covers her chapters in AFFC is going to show the audience what a completely despicable, vile woman she is. There's no way the writers can soften up Cersei's chapters in that book. I, for one, look forward to the Cersei vs. Margaery dialogue from AFFC to be shown on the screen. Lena Headey and Natalie Dormer will be perfectly matched against each other.

[Dragon of Valyria]

That, my friend, is called budget. A concept that sometimes dawns, but apparently not at others.

That was my point. It was hardly exceptional, in other words. :P

[Brucolac]

Yeah, you just don't see big scenes like that in TV or even movies anymore unless it is all CGI. They did Rob's most recent battle with less than 30 extras and only 6 actual actors. But then they have a scene like Renly's melee with what looked like well over a hundred. I just think they make some poor decisions on where to spend budget and screen time.

[The Second Hand]

Completely agree. I'd like to think that they are saving everything for Blackwater, but watch... just watch... Blackwater will amount to barely anything while we'll spend all of our time in church with Cersie and Sansa.

Wow. I need sleep. I'm so grumpy. It's more my passion for Martin, though. My passion, can't you see?