Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

barrychenault

Thoughts about The Red Wedding...SPOILERS!

Recommended Posts

I was shocked reading the Red Wedding. I also found it very sad, for Catelyn and for Arya too.

The only thing I have been more shocked about (in these books) was the Clash of Kings when we thought Theon had actually killed the little ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I felt it coming, and I kept thinking to myself, he can't be doing this to us, he can't be doing this to us. And then, he did it. So I guess I was blindsided by the fact that he actually did go through with it, but I felt a terrible sense of unease leading up to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a terrible feeling at all that since Grey Wind didn't want to enter the Frey's in a Catelyn chapter and she was so sad that day that dread was all over the page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the red wedding chapters and arya's last night and wow...never thought a book could produce such strong feelings. It was the hardest thing to read ever (amazing but very hard) and like most people, couldn't believe it was happening. Other than the Grey Wind warning it completely took me by surprise. It was even the first thing on my mind when I woke this morning and all day at work. And its so annoying cos I only really know people who watch the series rather than read the books so I can't share my feelings about it with anyone and compare with theirs! But wow really ripped me up, it sounds pathetic cos its just a book but wow!! Haha. Hope Jon Snow and Dany sort out the Freys and the Lannisters now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also was wondering, how well do you think HBO will handle the rw? You think viewers who don't read the book will get the same 'punch in the face' as us readers did? I don't see it...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew something was going to happen at the RW because of all the signs but I didn't think it would be that!

I wasn't all that surprised that *he* was cut out of the series. I've kind of been expecting it for a while. He wasn't really interesting enough to carry on as a main character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The constant mention of drums pounding Catelyn describes is brilliant in creating the moment, I noticed during one re read I was actually tapping my foot very loudly on the floor while reading it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was completely surprised when Robb and Catelyn died. I just completely ignored Grey Wind's warning, just assuming that it didn't mean anything specific. I had to read the whole thing twice because I just couldn't believe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just as shocked after reading the Red Wedding. I closed the book and prayed it was a nightmare! I had been sure something awful was going to happen...but had no idea how deep the cut would be. After recovering from the blow, I picked up and continued on. I have to see what happens with Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Dany and so many others. As much as I hated what happened, it made me realize NOTHING is sacred in ASOIAF. GRRM is a literary Genius! Now I have a ritual before I open the pages of this series. I put on my "big girl panties", grab my sword and shield, and fasten my seatbelt, because I know I'm in for a WILD RIDE!! Oh, and I practice my swordfighting with BOTH hands....just in case! READ ON FRIENDS!!! We'll see it through to the end, whatever the outcome. This series is truly 'art imitating life' because we never know what's in store on the next page of our lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the start with Grey Wind acting off, I was alarmed.... then Walder said "red will flow" or something along those lines aaand I dreaded reading onward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys! I'm new here and reading through A Song of Ice and Fire for the first time! =]

So, I am not quite done with ASoS, and I just read the chapter with the Red Wedding yesterday. I am wondering..did anyone else feel an overwhelming sense of foreboding and dread leading up to those events? I kept talking to my friends about it and saying that I felt like something terrible was going to happen. Did anyone else pick up on the foreshadowing that was going on?

I am listening to the books, the hour long commute to work and hour long commute home, and as I listened I kept hear ques of something not right. A refrence to the bad sounding music, the food not being that great or plenty yet there is more then enough wine and ale. Another thing was the horrible music being played or lack of songs known. With all that, to me the biggest tale that something was not right, was the simple fact that Papa Frey was willing to forgive King Robb. Lady Kat always said Papa Frey was mean and minipulative and doesn't take kindly to any slight to him or his family honor. So when I read/heard that Papa Frey was gonna forgive King Robb, i knew something was up and I didn't like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a re-read I noticed the following:

(1) When Winterfell falls to the ironmen, and Ser Rodrik comes back to retake it... "Reek", upon being set free, really doesn't have to go far to bring back the troops from Bolton. I seriously think they left the Dreadfort, and were already marching on Winterfell (probably with orders to "get in by posing as friends, get my bastard out of there, and torch the place") with orders from ROOSE... and were marching BEFORE Theon took Winterfell. The fact that he then set "Reek" free, and Reek turned out to be Ramsay, only served to help with the plan, of torching Winterfell, which was Roose Bolton's plan all along. It also helped them with the ability to pose as reinforcements come to assist Ser Rodrik - who is not smart enough to actually think "Hey, how come these reinforcements are so quick and so convenient? Wait... they were on their way here before Theon came, so they must be up to something".

(2) Ramsay Bolton orders the Freys in Winterfell to be spared, everyone else to be murdered, burned or taken captive... BEFORE Robb's marriage to Jeyne.

(3) Roose Bolton, by then, is already married to Fat Walda. ("He offered me his daughter's weight in silver and I chose accordingly.") Which means that, already at this time, the Boltons, Lannisters and Freys are all joined by marriage - and the Starks are not linked to any of them yet.

(4) Roose Bolton has managed to contrive to be in a position where he loses every battle that Robb actually asks him to fight, but retreats with his own men in good order (and the other Stark allies left behind, captured or dead): by employing the "Brave Companions"/Bloody Mummers in Harrenhal, he discredits Robb's cause among the smallfolk by having the "wolves" perform just as evil deeds as the "lions" (since it's the same men, Vargo Hoat's gang, wearing both badges in succession): and finally, given the opportunity to command, he sends many Stark loyalists into a trap at Duskendale, and uses the rest as his rearguard when re-crossing the Trident, taking only his own men plus Karstarks (now estranged from Robb) and Freys with him.

(5) By right, the Freys should already have come to the aid of the Tullys a book ago: they are themselves already guilty of oath-breaking for being still at the Twins and not marching to defend Riverrun right at the start of the war. Having failed in their own obligations they're under absolutely no position to call Robb out as an oathbreaker himself.

I think the Bolton/Frey treachery goes back further than anyone has so far guessed: and that if Robb had NOT married Jeyne Westerling, the wedding at the Twins would have been his own... and it would still have been the Red Wedding (with Roose, probably cooperating with Tywin, as the main orchestrator and the Freys as the fall guys, just as now.) One could even argue that the Westerling match nearly *saved* him since there wouldn't have been a wedding at The Twins (and would ahve forced them to declare open enmity, which they nearly do)... but the suggestion, ironically by Catelyn, that Edmure rather than Robb could marry a Frey, gives them a wedding that Robb can be present at, and a chance to go ahead with the Red Wedding as long planned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a re-read I noticed the following:

(1) When Winterfell falls to the ironmen, and Ser Rodrik comes back to retake it... "Reek", upon being set free, really doesn't have to go far to bring back the troops from Bolton. I seriously think they left the Dreadfort, and were already marching on Winterfell (probably with orders to "get in by posing as friends, get my bastard out of there, and torch the place") with orders from ROOSE... and were marching BEFORE Theon took Winterfell. The fact that he then set "Reek" free, and Reek turned out to be Ramsay, only served to help with the plan, of torching Winterfell, which was Roose Bolton's plan all along. It also helped them with the ability to pose as reinforcements come to assist Ser Rodrik - who is not smart enough to actually think "Hey, how come these reinforcements are so quick and so convenient? Wait... they were on their way here before Theon came, so they must be up to something".

(2) Ramsay Bolton orders the Freys in Winterfell to be spared, everyone else to be murdered, burned or taken captive... BEFORE Robb's marriage to Jeyne.

(3) Roose Bolton, by then, is already married to Fat Walda. ("He offered me his daughter's weight in silver and I chose accordingly.") Which means that, already at this time, the Boltons, Lannisters and Freys are all joined by marriage - and the Starks are not linked to any of them yet.

(4) Roose Bolton has managed to contrive to be in a position where he loses every battle that Robb actually asks him to fight, but retreats with his own men in good order (and the other Stark allies left behind, captured or dead): by employing the "Brave Companions"/Bloody Mummers in Harrenhal, he discredits Robb's cause among the smallfolk by having the "wolves" perform just as evil deeds as the "lions" (since it's the same men, Vargo Hoat's gang, wearing both badges in succession): and finally, given the opportunity to command, he sends many Stark loyalists into a trap at Duskendale, and uses the rest as his rearguard when re-crossing the Trident, taking only his own men plus Karstarks (now estranged from Robb) and Freys with him.

(5) By right, the Freys should already have come to the aid of the Tullys a book ago: they are themselves already guilty of oath-breaking for being still at the Twins and not marching to defend Riverrun right at the start of the war. Having failed in their own obligations they're under absolutely no position to call Robb out as an oathbreaker himself.

I think the Bolton/Frey treachery goes back further than anyone has so far guessed: and that if Robb had NOT married Jeyne Westerling, the wedding at the Twins would have been his own... and it would still have been the Red Wedding (with Roose, probably cooperating with Tywin, as the main orchestrator and the Freys as the fall guys, just as now.) One could even argue that the Westerling match nearly *saved* him since there wouldn't have been a wedding at The Twins (and would ahve forced them to declare open enmity, which they nearly do)... but the suggestion, ironically by Catelyn, that Edmure rather than Robb could marry a Frey, gives them a wedding that Robb can be present at, and a chance to go ahead with the Red Wedding as long planned.

i agree with all of what you said. I believe the plan was being hatched way back when Terion finally left his bed chambers and went and talked to Tywin. Tywin said that quill and paper can be just as important and deadly as swords and axes(peraphrasing). It think Tywin was planning way back when which would lead to all the things you mentioned earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would seem they take arranged marriages very serious in the Seven Kingdoms, heh. More serious than my ex wife, anyways, heh.

I saw GRRM speak about the Red Wedding--on the youtube, and while he didn't technically spoil it, heh, I kinda knew something was up.

What happened to Edmund? Or are we not supposed to know, heh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About greatjon, do we ever get real evidence that he is alive? I mean the Freys say they have him, but that might be just to keep the umbers in check. The Frey word is worth about as much as the stuff that comes out the southbound end of my dog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a re-read I noticed the following:

(1) When Winterfell falls to the ironmen, and Ser Rodrik comes back to retake it... "Reek", upon being set free, really doesn't have to go far to bring back the troops from Bolton. I seriously think they left the Dreadfort, and were already marching on Winterfell (probably with orders to "get in by posing as friends, get my bastard out of there, and torch the place") with orders from ROOSE... and were marching BEFORE Theon took Winterfell. The fact that he then set "Reek" free, and Reek turned out to be Ramsay, only served to help with the plan, of torching Winterfell, which was Roose Bolton's plan all along. It also helped them with the ability to pose as reinforcements come to assist Ser Rodrik - who is not smart enough to actually think "Hey, how come these reinforcements are so quick and so convenient? Wait... they were on their way here before Theon came, so they must be up to something".

(2) Ramsay Bolton orders the Freys in Winterfell to be spared, everyone else to be murdered, burned or taken captive... BEFORE Robb's marriage to Jeyne.

(3) Roose Bolton, by then, is already married to Fat Walda. ("He offered me his daughter's weight in silver and I chose accordingly.") Which means that, already at this time, the Boltons, Lannisters and Freys are all joined by marriage - and the Starks are not linked to any of them yet.

(4) Roose Bolton has managed to contrive to be in a position where he loses every battle that Robb actually asks him to fight, but retreats with his own men in good order (and the other Stark allies left behind, captured or dead): by employing the "Brave Companions"/Bloody Mummers in Harrenhal, he discredits Robb's cause among the smallfolk by having the "wolves" perform just as evil deeds as the "lions" (since it's the same men, Vargo Hoat's gang, wearing both badges in succession): and finally, given the opportunity to command, he sends many Stark loyalists into a trap at Duskendale, and uses the rest as his rearguard when re-crossing the Trident, taking only his own men plus Karstarks (now estranged from Robb) and Freys with him.

(5) By right, the Freys should already have come to the aid of the Tullys a book ago: they are themselves already guilty of oath-breaking for being still at the Twins and not marching to defend Riverrun right at the start of the war. Having failed in their own obligations they're under absolutely no position to call Robb out as an oathbreaker himself.

I think the Bolton/Frey treachery goes back further than anyone has so far guessed: and that if Robb had NOT married Jeyne Westerling, the wedding at the Twins would have been his own... and it would still have been the Red Wedding (with Roose, probably cooperating with Tywin, as the main orchestrator and the Freys as the fall guys, just as now.) One could even argue that the Westerling match nearly *saved* him since there wouldn't have been a wedding at The Twins (and would ahve forced them to declare open enmity, which they nearly do)... but the suggestion, ironically by Catelyn, that Edmure rather than Robb could marry a Frey, gives them a wedding that Robb can be present at, and a chance to go ahead with the Red Wedding as long planned.

I agree that Roose was planning treachery before Robb's marriage to Jeyne, but I don't agree that the Red Wedding was inevitable. GRRM himself once said that Walder Frey might have weaselled his way out of the alliance since Robb was losing the war, but he never would have done the actual atrocity that was the Red Wedding unless he was insulted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×