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turdle

[Book Spoilers] the shadow

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I thought is was creepy as hell!! Screeching didn't bother me. There was a sense of it growing as it came out of her, from some baby demon into a man shadow.

My bf is a non-reader and he says he might have been confused if a full on Stannis shadow just floated out of her uterus. The liberties taken with the look and sound set up the fact that this thing is going to do some damage. I think when we get a better look at the fully grown shadow and we see the Renly tent murder scene or will all be very satisfying.

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I need to rewatch the episode. But it was confusing. Where are they? Are they at Storm's End? Why? They sure as hell didn't mention much about Storm's End....I must have missed something.

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THANK GOD they didn't end with the shadow killing Renly. The season is compressed enough as it is, you might as well wish for the invasion of King's Landing next episode too. This was the perfect cliffhanger and allows a sense of dread to build up, as well as give poor old Renly a little more screentime before his neck is aerated.

I thought it was well done. Not what was in my head, but when I try to imagine what was in my head on screen and compare it with what we got it strikes me as super cheesy and not as good as what they came up with. I do wish the unfortunate 'smoke' connotation could be avoided somehow but overall I thought it was suitably creepy.

Did not like the screech, although it is in the grand scheme of things a minor nitpick. It's just flat out cliched, I would have preferred a hiss like water on hot coals, or maybe something like the soft crackling of fire (remember, fire casts shadows, they are servants of the lord of light according to M). Of course, I just said I didn't like the 'smoke' connotation above, but hey, it's just my two cents.

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Screech was fine. It was meant to be creepy and like a baby that wasn't right.

As for the effects themselves they were dead on.

I was shocked when it didn't end on Renly's death but assuming they do it right the next episode will be better for it.

If it begins with Renly's tent and then suddenly BAM he's dead it sets for a very fast paced episode, kind of like how around episode 5 last season it kicked off hardcore after being fairly slow. Some people speculate they wont show the shadow assassinating Renly, but that would be a mistake I think, as I feel viewers would feel rightfully conned. Not to mention Cat at least needs to see the shadow and defend Brienne. Skipping that all important scene(the most memorable in the series) would be dumb.

Shadow baby was great, lets hope they drive it home.

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i'm guessing that when they do show the scene in renly's tent, the creature will initially be in 2D form on the wall unnoticed. and it will move and cat will notice it, then it will return to 3D form and kill renly.

i think that the 3D form makes the most sense for the birth scene and yes, most non-book viewers are going to think of it just as a smoke monster, but if they show it on the wall in renlys tent, i think they'll understand what it is better.

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Why exactly are they going into some cave to kill Renly, when he is in a tent on an open field? I thought the scene was brilliantly done, but that aspect just seemed strange to me. They might have done it on the beach instead. I think it's even supposed to be underneath Storm's End in the show too, as Davos mentions that the bars weren't there the last time. (Or something to that effect.)

I was confused by this as well. Does this mean they will cut the bits with Stannis sieging Storm's End? Then what will Stannis and co. be doing until episode 8, which I believe is the Battle of Blackwater. I guess they could still do it, but just not show Mel birthing the shadow that kills Cortnay Penrose...

I thought the adaptation of the shadow baby was good. If they kept it as just a pure shadow on the wall, etc., I think it would have looked cheap and silly and make nonreaders think of Peter Pan or something.

As for the cliffhanger, good for non-readers I guess, they'll be sure to look forward to next episode to find out what the hell that thing was and what it will do. As for us readers, yeah, we just wanted to see it slice through Renly's gorget like cheese cloth!!

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I was wondering what they would do for this scene, because after reading it in the book, I was perplexed about what it actually was. I kind of thought that Davos wasn't even sure what he was describing actually happened. I do think it was sufficiently horrifying, but I kind of liked the subtle mystery in the books better. In the books (I've only read through SoS), I always got the sense that Melisandre's deeds were more mythical or misunderstood rather than literal, unworldly magic. She had power, but no one was sure exactly how much. In the show, it looks like they're going to take it much more literal that she's a wielder of godlike power, and Renly's death won't be a mystery whatsoever; it'll be tied to Stannis immediately.

Why exactly are they going into some cave to kill Renly, when he is in a tent on an open field? I thought the scene was brilliantly done, but that aspect just seemed strange to me. They might have done it on the beach instead. I think it's even supposed to be underneath Storm's End in the show too, as Davos mentions that the bars weren't there the last time. (Or something to that effect.)

I think it's because 1) Melisandre's not supposed to be pregnant, particularly since she's always with Stannis, and 2) a horrific scene like that seen by anyone but unfortunate Davos (whose loyalty to Stannis is unquestioned) would spread throughout Westeros like wildfire. The pregnancy and its birth are supposed to be secret, so why not go to the bottom of a watery keep where the ocean drowns out any sound?

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I thought the shadow should have looked more like Stannis. IIRC, Davos says that he would recognize that shadow anywhere. Also, the idea that Mel needed to use part of his soul to make the shadow was important as well.

Visually, it was very cool. Plot wise, more could have been explained. Especially since the episode ended at 9:51 PM !!!

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I never really liked the shadow baby parts of the novel, it just seemed a little far fetched to me and make Mel seem far too powerful. I much prefer her doing glamours, seeing visions in fires, and things of that sort.

This scene was pretty cool..though I didn't really like the writing in it. Especially with Mel suggesting that Davos wants her..no..just no.

The shadow baby itself was pretty freaky..I didn't like the "smoke", or the screech really, but the final appearance was solid. I mean it is hard to picture it even from the book in my opinion, so I think they did a good job. I am more curious as to how it is going to get from the underwater cave to Renly's tent..but I am guessing it will just be there already (invisible in background) whenever Cat enters the tent. It will be very interesting to see it killing poor Renly..I am looking forward to seeing it!

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And how would it be better in your opinion since you seem such an expert at this ? For the budget they have it was pretty impressive but of course someone always has to bitch about everything .

WTF.... who claimed I was an expert?? I am allowed to post my opinions. Or is that right only for YOU? Of course not!

Why on earth would you break bad with someone on a message board? Someone who you DO NOT KNOW and someone whose posts you've clearly not read?

I do not always bitch about something... but really, now I will.

Having people attacked on these boards if their opinion is different is getting ridiculous.

Lord, come on.

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I was confused by this as well. Does this mean they will cut the bits with Stannis sieging Storm's End? Then what will Stannis and co. be doing until episode 8, which I believe is the Battle of Blackwater. I guess they could still do it, but just not show Mel birthing the shadow that kills Cortnay Penrose...

I thought the adaptation of the shadow baby was good. If they kept it as just a pure shadow on the wall, etc., I think it would have looked cheap and silly and make nonreaders think of Peter Pan or something.

As for the cliffhanger, good for non-readers I guess, they'll be sure to look forward to next episode to find out what the hell that thing was and what it will do. As for us readers, yeah, we just wanted to see it slice through Renly's gorget like cheese cloth!!

Exactly. This scene has really confused a lot of book fans because we all know that shadow demon was sent through the bars under Storm's End to kill Penrose, not Renly. Renly's death comes later on the battlefield in his tent so having Melisandre go into the cave doesn't make sense if its supposed to be Renly's death...

Since they have not done the bits regarding Edric Storm and Courtney Penrose's refusal to turn over the bastard Baratheon boy to Melisandre, I'm going to assume they are cutting that out and making the cave birth scene into Renly's death... but it still doesn't make any sense.

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Yeah it's much better than my imagination. I just had it as a shadow that came crawling out of her hooha.

Same here. Just having a strange shadow crawl out out her wouldn't have looked good given the television medium, it also would have been hard to show it kill Renly. I never imagined that we were just talking about a shadow on the wall, otherwise how did it kill Renly. I imagined some kind of 3D figure just described as a shadow for a lack of a better term. They did a great job.

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Disappointed in some ways that they combined the Renly's scenes with the sequence from the book at Storm's End (Cortnay Penrose's death) though I suppose it makes sense both in terms of budget and time.

To save me reading back through A Clash of Kings, was it at Storm's End that Renly was killed?

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Is what takes place in the most recent episode even supposed to be at Storm's End?

Exactly. This scene has really confused a lot of book fans because we all know that shadow demon was sent through the bars under Storm's End to kill Penrose, not Renly. Renly's death comes later on the battlefield in his tent so having Melisandre go into the cave doesn't make sense if its supposed to be Renly's death...

Renly dies before Penrose surely?

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Does everybody now know what Mel was talking about before the rumpy pumpy with Stan on the table?

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I too envisioned it as an actual shadow, this looked like an ink monster.

I agree. It wasn't bad, just not what I expected. And the look on Davos's face was priceless... like WTF is going on here!

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One of my friends who hasn't read the books yet asked me how that was actually written out (cause he couldn't imagine putting that scene to words), so I took the liberty of copying the passage down for him. Figured y'all might wanna see it too and compare.

"Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child's head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping black fingers coiling around Melisandre's straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world and rose taller than Davos, tall as the tunnel, towering above the boat. He had only an instant to look at it before it was gone, twisting between the bars of the portcullis and racing across the surface of the water, but the instant was long enough.

He knew that shadow. As he knew the man who'd cast it."

Clash of Kings, Davos 468

So yeah... I thought they did a marvellous job actually.

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