[Book Spoilers] Stannis

[ckongo]

The actor is terrible as Stannis. He has had little dialogue so we don't know him well, and the dialogue he has had doesn't ring true as the iron, duty-first Stannis. He seems neurotic, unsure, and distracted.

That parley scene with Renly was just awful. Ignoring all other problems, Renly acted much more like Stannis.

[7V3N]

The actor is terrible as Stannis. He has had little dialogue so we don't know him well, and the dialogue he has had doesn't ring true as the iron, duty-first Stannis. He seems neurotic, unsure, and distracted.

That parley scene with Renly was just awful. Ignoring all other problems, Renly acted much more like Stannis.

His dialogue rings of shitty writing. Things that are an obvious attempt of establishing the character like, "The Iron Throne is mine by right. They will bend the knee or I will destroy them." Really? That is their attempt at establishing the hard, black-and-whiteness of Stannis? Not the emphasis on how he cut Davos' fingertips while also raising him to knighthood, or how he is only dutiful to his wife, or how he was slighted continuously by Robert--giving Renly Storms End, thanking Ned for breaking the seige of Storms End and not Stannis for holding it, etc. I think they just did a horrible job at introducing and developing his character.

Also, Melisandre is awful. Her outfit is too dark for my liking, she seems to be a slut who just wants to lure every guy into fucking her, and there has been barely any emphasis on R'hllor. R'hllor may be the most driving force in the entire series.

[ckongo]

His dialogue rings of shitty writing. Things that are an obvious attempt of establishing the character like, "The Iron Throne is mine by right. They will bend the knee or I will destroy them." Really? That is their attempt at establishing the hard, black-and-whiteness of Stannis? Not the emphasis on how he cut Davos' fingertips while also raising him to knighthood, or how he is only dutiful to his wife, or how he was slighted continuously by Robert--giving Renly Storms End, thanking Ned for breaking the seige of Storms End and not Stannis for holding it, etc. I think they just did a horrible job at introducing and developing his character.

Also, Melisandre is awful. Her outfit is too dark for my liking, she seems to be a slut who just wants to lure every guy into fucking her, and there has been barely any emphasis on R'hllor. R'hllor may be the most driving force in the entire series.

I know Stannis has had few lines, but in the parley scene he didn't come off as I expected from reading the books. Renly was the angry one in that scene; not Stannis. It should have been the opposite. When he said "the iron throne is mine by rights" there was no anger there; no stubborness. I expected him to have more of a gruff manner.

Melisandre... That whole thing with her stating that Davos "wanted her" was ridiculous and slutty. But these writers slip in any opportunity for sexual tension that they can find. Such as adding that scene where Sam gives Gilly some trinket, Petyr at the brothel, or Joffrey with the spanking whores...

[Monk Meth-]

you have to put into consideration that though the book is more detailed.. we never get to see stannis POV.. so we only know him from how other people perceive him.

[Nucky Thompson]

One must understand that many characters in the books are described in ways that cannot be shown in a TV show - Roose Bolton wearing a pink cloak in battle or Stannis clenching his teeth are two examples of this. TV-Stannis is a rather good depiction, considering those constraints. However, what bothered me about Stannis is his answer to Renly's "Whose sigil is that" - "My own." It simply didn't sound right for Stannis to do what was very much like explaining himself in front of his little brother... It should've been a more threatening and imposing answer, but that was very much balanced out by Renly's "Is he a ham?"...

[7V3N]

One must understand that many characters in the books are described in ways that cannot be shown in a TV show - Roose Bolton wearing a pink cloak in battle or Stannis clenching his teeth are two examples of this. TV-Stannis is a rather good depiction, considering those constraints. However, what bothered me about Stannis is his answer to Renly's "Whose sigil is that" - "My own." It simply didn't sound right for Stannis to do what was very much like explaining himself in front of his little brother... It should've been a more threatening and imposing answer, but that was very much balanced out by Renly's "Is he a ham?"...

Renly seemed too angry and hostile in the conversation, where Stannis seemed calmer. I imagined in the book a more frustrated and annoyed Stannis and a joking, carefree, sarcastic Renly.

[Jory]

Dillane is doing a great job as Stannis.The viewers don't like him because they are not meant to.

They weren't in the books either.

In fact no one has a good word to say about him until the gift chapter.

Likeable no,plausible yes.

... I liked Stannis long before I read the gift chapter. Namely when he decided to save the Wall.

[Jory]

"Whose sigil is that" - "My own."

That line is from the books...

[Targaryen Kaiser]

The other thing is how Stannis invicts fear upon all the other characters. Catelyn knows he will not break, Tyrion and Cersei are both terrified, even Varys is a little bit. The presence of Stannis in the book goes far beyond his screen time. He is present even when he is hundreds of miles away, yet this show makes him almost unimportant. Tyrion has barely mentioned him (if at all) since the letter about Joff's death. Everything in the novel is very much dictated by Stannis' actions, not feeling that at all in this show

To be honest, back when I was reading aCoK for the first time, I didn't think of him as the main danger for King's Landing and Joffrey's side. Up until Renly's death . Since this is going to happen in the next episode we can hope that Stannis' presence in this war will become more apparent and important than it has portrayed so far.

[Jory]

Tbh, back when I was reading aCoK for the first time ,I didn't thought of him as the main danger for King's Landing. Up until Renly's death . Since this is going to happen in the next episode we can hope that Stannis' presence in this war will become more apparent and important than it has portrayed so far.

Yeah, I agree, in ACoK Stannis' march on KL happens way too fast and way too late and it isn't built up enough for the real climax feeling that battle's supposed to have. The show is right to do that much, at least.

[salt]

However, what bothered me about Stannis is his answer to Renly's "Whose sigil is that" - "My own." It simply didn't sound right for Stannis to do what was very much like explaining himself in front of his little brother... I

The weird part about this isn't the sigil line, which I believe was in the book, its the fact that for some ridiculous reason, Renly has a new sigil :shocked: . He seems to be using a stag on a green background, I guess to symbolize his alliance with the Tyrells? Its weird, but more importantly, it means that this like makes no goddamn sense. "It would be confusing if we were using the same banner?" Why would Stannis be using the Tyrell green? Terrible writing.

[Jory]

Yes, agreed, Vanessa Taylor did a poor job with this episode - particularly re: Stannis' arrival, which comes entirely out of left-field, and then later Stannis' lines having Davos go to the cave ("there are cleaner ways"? Cleaner ways of what? How does Davos know what Mel is going to do? How does Stannis? WHAT?), and then even LATER Mel being all "You want me", etc.

[salt]

Yeah, what was one of the best scenes in the books was terrible on screen. The whole Stannis and Renly plot has been poorly handled. In the books there was so much tension, so much confusion...when Stannis set sail from Dragonstone, everyone thought he was going to arrive at King's Landing any minute, and the city braced for an attack. Then there is that wonderful moment when the the Lannisters get the news that he sailed not to KL, but to Storms End, and they realize at the same time the readers do- they're fighting each other! - and Cersei and Tyrion actually start dancing with joy. A shame that none of this has made it to the show.

[teemo]

I think the actor is fine, but they are ruining his character. When my non-book friends refer to him as the guy that cheats on his wife with the red-headed slut, I know D&D are doing something wrong here.

[House Snow]

^ Isn't that true though. He did sleep with her and Mel did seem to go after Jon too.

[unRobert]

Too few lines, too little to know... But I'm diggin Stannis Jefferson.

In the books I wasn't sure about him at all (only rooting for him as an anti-Lannisterinian) until ADWD. When you realize his accomplishment in smashing Victarion's Iron fleet (We get to see Vic's badassery in ADWD) and his actions really equal his characterization. The red woman was an early detractor for his character, but when he enlists the help of the mountain clans and marches on Winterfell in winte you can't help but love the character. I just hope the show does the same. If they stick true to Stannis' story it will become clear in on television as well.

[Jory]

^ Isn't that true though. He did sleep with her and Mel did seem to go after Jon too.

It's probably true but showing it so early helps define his character to the point that it overwhelms the whole "this is Robert's eldest brother who is the rightful heir to the throne and wants to bring the Lannisters to justice". It makes him "guy who cheats on his wife with the redheaded slut", as HK-47 said. It would've been better to leave it ambiguous - the explanation given in the show for the sex, I think, a little weird especially considering Stannis then asks Davos to take Mel to the cave. Does Stannis think the shadowbaby will be his heir and also a trained assassin? What?

[SerArthurHeath]

I agree 100% though much of the problem is also the writing. In the book A Clash of Kings, Stannis's feelings and motives are well documented. We know why he is the way he is and why he is taking the action

1. He saw his parents destroyed in a horrific shipwreck right outside of his own castle: "I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed." (ACOK 172)

2. He felt slighted by Robert for a number of reasons. The first was his love for Stark and lack of appreciation for Stannis, despite all he did. He thanked Stark for breaking the siege, not Stannis for holding the castle. He blames Stannis for allowing Viserys to escape from Dragonstone. He is mad that he named Ned Stark hand of the king.

3. He wanted Storm's End, his ancestral home. He held it for over a year under siege. Sure he also took Dragonstone from the Targaryens, but what he wanted was Storm's End: "I never asked for Dragonstone. I never wanted it...Storm's End belong to House Baratheon for three hundred years; by rights it should have passed to e when Robert took the Iron Throne." (ACOK 24)

I also don't like that they made it so Ned told Stannis about Joffrey's true parentage. He already knew, he found out with Jon Arryn and when he died he left. Its like they are making Stannis to be less than he should be to make Ned seem more heroic or something, when in fact it was Stannis who even brought his theory to Lord Arryn.

I know the show is super complicated and there are so many characters- too many really for 10 hours- but I think giving Stannis a proper introduction and back story would have really served the show.

Stannis can join the list of people that come worse off as the show tries to glorify the Starks. Makes sense though, as they are "the good guys" (in a series famous for not being about good and bad guys in any objective manner, though I'd argue that the truth behind that reputation is arguable)

[House Snow]

It's probably true but showing it so early helps define his character to the point that it overwhelms the whole "this is Robert's eldest brother who is the rightful heir to the throne and wants to bring the Lannisters to justice". It makes him "guy who cheats on his wife with the redheaded slut", as HK-47 said. It would've been better to leave it ambiguous - the explanation given in the show for the sex, I think, a little weird especially considering Stannis then asks Davos to take Mel to the cave. Does Stannis think the shadowbaby will be his heir and also a trained assassin? What?

How would they do the shadowbaby scene though? Even in the book it was kind of confusing for while. I mean getting rid of the second shadowbaby was pretty much a given in the tv version, and if bok fans can't see that then imo their opinion can't be taken seriously b/c they are completely ignoring the logistics of the show. So once you accpt there was only going to be one shadow baby then you kind of needed to tie it more to Stannis. There are other areas where the show could have been more ambigous but I don't think this is one of them. Now should they have added another Stannis, scene preferably an exposition/character building type scene before the sex scen-yeah I think so. But I think the sex scene was pretty essential.

[Jory]

How do you tie the shadow to Stannis? It's easy. Catelyn, in the books, literally says "it was Stannis" about fifty times.