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Stannis Iron Baratheon

[Book Spoilers] Stannis

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They're putting Dragonstone arc on the backseat so we can see Robb give Jeyne 2.0 googly eyes and Dany have really awkward conversations

Yes I really don't like that. I was talking to a friend who is a non book read and I told him Stannis is my favorite character from the book and he told me he was really struggling to figure out what was going.

Everything this season just feels too rushed. No character development, no explanations of whats going on...

Like Robb's battle against Ser Stafford Lannister's army at Oxcross. Did they ever mention that another Lannister host was gathering? All the non book reader knows is that Tywin is at Harrenhal and Robb is fighting god knows who.

I think everything would be better if they just spent 5 minutes each episode explaining what is happening.

Like why did Stannis even show up in the Stormlands? Its very clear in the book, in the show it makes no sense TBH. They should have given him a line like "I need to get my brother's bannerman to my side" or "i need to take storm's end" instead he just shows up to parlay with Renly

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On what basis do you say so? The books provide no support for such a statement.

Say what? He's more honorable than the folks in kl or renly or greyjoy?

I think that's pretty clear. Renly has no claim to the throne.

The lannisters? Killing and raping all the peasants in the riverlands isnt very honorable, nor was cutting off starks head and almost anything cersei does.

Do i have to mention the greyjoys?

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Yes I really don't like that. I was talking to a friend who is a non book read and I told him Stannis is my favorite character from the book and he told me he was really struggling to figure out what was going.

Everything this season just feels too rushed. No character development, no explanations of whats going on...

Like Robb's battle against Ser Stafford Lannister's army at Oxcross. Did they ever mention that another Lannister host was gathering? All the non book reader knows is that Tywin is at Harrenhal and Robb is fighting god knows who.

I think everything would be better if they just spent 5 minutes each episode explaining what is happening.

Like why did Stannis even show up in the Stormlands? Its very clear in the book, in the show it makes no sense TBH. They should have given him a line like "I need to get my brother's bannerman to my side" or "i need to take storm's end" instead he just shows up to parlay with Renly

They're wasting time developing joffrey (which we already have a complete understanding of), giving littlefinger waaaaaay too much airtime, and making sure we know who ros is for some ungodly reason.

Does it even feel like there's been any Blackwater buildup or hype? Do you feel like kings landing is threatened at all? Not to me. Does it feel like robb stark has control of the west-the lannisters' backyard!

My ratings for these episodes are plummetting right now.

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I miss Stannis's dry wit. The quote about Marg and in your bed she'll stay that way, should have stayed in. Less Ros and more Stannis. Actually less Ros and more a lot of other characters too.

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Say what? He's more honorable than the folks in kl or renly or greyjoy?

Kevan Lannister and even Tyrion are more honorable than Stannis. As is Renly, who has better (if perhaps not as lawful) a claim to the throne than Stannis. I don't think Asha is less honorable than Stannis either. In fact, I'm uncertain on how Victarion and Theon compare to him... come to think of it, Theon and Stannis are remarkably similar far as honor goes.

I think that's pretty clear. Renly has no claim to the throne.

Fifty thousand troops think otherwise.

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Kevan Lannister and even Tyrion are more honorable than Stannis.

the same Kevan who was cool with setting the Hound, the Brave Companions, and Ser Armory out on the peasants to rape, pillage, and burn all of their food?

Tyrion is pretty honorable.

As is Renly, who has better (if perhaps not as lawful) a claim to the throne than Stannis. I don't think Asha is less honorable than Stannis either. In fact, I'm uncertain on how Victarion and Theon compare to him... come to think of it, Theon and Stannis are remarkably similar far as honor goes.

Renly has no claim on the throne other than his number of allies.

I can't take you seriously on the whole Theon and Stanins being remarkably similar. Because Stannis used a Shadow assassain? what other King went north to protect their realm? Stannis is fighting a holy war against the Other as well as claiming the throne which is his by all rights and customs. we can tit for tat on Thoen v Stannis' honor all day and you'll lose that one. Please remember, that I said Stannis' honor is overrated, he's just more honorable that all these guys- ESPECIALLY Theon. Can you see Stannis threatening to hang Ser Rodrick's daughter?

The Greyjoy's are not honorable on GP alone. What they do, taking from people weaker than them isn't honorable.

Fifty thousand troops think otherwise.

So explain what that has to do with making it an honorable claim? Sure it can be a claim, nothing to do with honor.

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Kevan Lannister and even Tyrion are more honorable than Stannis. As is Renly, who has better (if perhaps not as lawful) a claim to the throne than Stannis. I don't think Asha is less honorable than Stannis either. In fact, I'm uncertain on how Victarion and Theon compare to him... come to think of it, Theon and Stannis are remarkably similar far as honor goes.

Fifty thousand troops think otherwise.

How is does Renly have a better claim to the throne than Stannis? That point is ridiculous. Renly specifically says to Catlyn that he's going to take the throne by force because he's more popular. Renly recognizes that his claim is less valid. But that doesn't matter as much in the long run as actually having the clout to take it. Renly think he's going to be a better king than Stannis, which is why he justifies taking the throne for himself.

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I guess my opinion of Stannis so far is more leaning towards not hardass enough. He does reply to his ways of justice (with Davos and to his threat to Renly), he shall do whatever means are given to him to see that Justice is done; by chopping Davos four fingers or preventing renly from taking the Iron Throne from him.

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Kevan Lannister and even Tyrion are more honorable than Stannis. As is Renly, who has better (if perhaps not as lawful) a claim to the throne than Stannis. I don't think Asha is less honorable than Stannis either. In fact, I'm uncertain on how Victarion and Theon compare to him... come to think of it, Theon and Stannis are remarkably similar far as honor goes.

"On what basis do you say so? The books provide no support for such a statement." Only in this case, they really don't. Renly specifically says: "You may have the better claim..." to Stannis - there isn't any arguing that Stannis has a better claim than Renly does. What that means to you, as a reader, is up to you, but Renly having a big army doesn't mean a lot to me in my mind. Tyrion is not more honorable than Stannis - Tyrion rapes a whore in Pentos, kills his own father, kills a whore he deluded himself into thinking loved him, and has a singer killed to shut him up. As Stannis himself says, a good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good. Stannis going to the Wall is his crowning achievement and it deserves a great deal of credit. That Stannis may or may not have been (still tend towards "may not have been" even after the series) involved in his brother's death does not outweigh that. Stannis is a very complicated character, but your ultra-negative view of him is likely no more valid than some people's ultra-positive view.

There are reasons people have twenty page arguments about this character. He is one of the most ambiguous in the series, a person truly straddling the line between hero and villain, and that makes him very, very, very interesting. I hope the show does him justice, but I have to say I don't think it will. I'm more or less very unhappy with his presentation so far - I don't like how they cut out his best lines and add more new lines for Renly, for instance.

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There are reasons people have twenty page arguments about this character. He is one of the most ambiguous in the series, a person truly straddling the line between hero and villain, and that makes him very, very, very interesting. I hope the show does him justice, but I have to say I don't think it will. I'm more or less very unhappy with his presentation so far - I don't like how they cut out his best lines and add more new lines for Renly, for instance.

For what it's worth, a good king in the medieval ages should straddle the line between hero and villain in the way that Stannis does. You must be known as a hard-ass when it comes to justice in order to keep the peace. People must be executed and justice needs to be swift and brutal. That's the only way to keep criminals in line considering the limitations of technology.

Stannis may be styled after William the Conqueror, who was notoriously brutal and unforgiving. He was a heavy handed ruler, but fair and just; unloved but respected. It was said "It had been possible during his reign for a man to walk with his pockets full of gold from one end of William's realm to the other with no-one touching him through their fear of the king."

That's a good king back in the day.

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I thought Stannis was wonderfully Stannis-like in this episode and it seemed so very much in character for him to correct someone's grammar too. I don't mind the actor's way of speaking either, overall I think he is as close to nailing Stannis as can be expected of him.

I also think I am showing my age when all the other fangirls are fawning over Robb and Jon Snow, while I am going "Why, isn't that gentleman playing Stannis quite handsome in a rugged and windswept fashion?". Because you know, he makes Stannis quite fawn worthy! I shall now be off grabbing my cane and telling the kids to get off my lawn! :lol:

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I also think I am showing my age when all the other fangirls are fawning over Robb and Jon Snow, while I am going "Why, isn't that gentleman playing Stannis quite handsome in a rugged and windswept fashion?". Because you know, he makes Stannis quite fawn worthy! I shall now be off grabbing my cane and telling the kids to get off my lawn! :lol:

No accounting for taste, is there? Ha-ha. He IS nice looking. I don't go for the Robb/Jon scene either. I'll keep my age a secret though ;-)

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I think that's pretty clear. Renly has no claim to the throne.

Oh come on. What claim does anyone have to the throne, really? The Baratheons took it by force, as did the Targaryens. Just like Renly is doing now.

The fact that he has the most people behind him is a good reason for him to be King imo.

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Have folks considered that we first meet Stannis from the POV of Davos, who has a massive man-crush on the dude, and how that might color how we perceive him? One of the things GRRM likes to do with POV story-telling is the unreliable narrator -- how characters and events can be interpreted differently by different people...

One of things that makes the show really compelling for me, as a book reader, is how the story can't be told POV. We don't see Stannis as Davos sees him. We see Stannis for who he actually is. Which opens the door to some really interesting, if not totally canon choices for the showrunners in terms of how they present these people... Just something I've been thinking about. I wonder how much our idea of Stannis is shaped by first seeing him through Davos' eyes.

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Have folks considered that we first meet Stannis from the POV of Davos, who has a massive man-crush on the dude, and how that might color how we perceive him? One of the things GRRM likes to do with POV story-telling is the unreliable narrator -- how characters and events can be interpreted differently by different people...

One of things that makes the show really compelling for me, as a book reader, is how the story can't be told POV. We don't see Stannis as Davos sees him. We see Stannis for who he actually is. Which opens the door to some really interesting, if not totally canon choices for the showrunners in terms of how they present these people... Just something I've been thinking about. I wonder how much our idea of Stannis is shaped by first seeing him through Davos' eyes.

We don't first see him through Davos' eyes, though, we see him through Maester Cressen's - and either way, Stannis' role in A Clash of Kings is decidedly antagonistic to the main narrative thread (Tyrion), so I don't think the argument that we are biased in Davos' favor holds much water. In fact, I would argue the opposite.

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How is does Renly have a better claim to the throne than Stannis? That point is ridiculous.

Is it?

Renly specifically says to Catlyn that he's going to take the throne by force because he's more popular.

Which is what ultimately matters.

Renly recognizes that his claim is less valid.

Uh, no, he doesn't. The opposite, really. He does however recognize that he has no support from the law, for what little it is worth.

But that doesn't matter as much in the long run as actually having the clout to take it. Renly think he's going to be a better king than Stannis, which is why he justifies taking the throne for himself.

Precisely.

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Oh come on. What claim does anyone have to the throne, really? The Baratheons took it by force, as did the Targaryens. Just like Renly is doing

The fact that he has the most people behind him is a good reason for him to be King imo.

The conversation you're jumping into is strictly if the claim in honorable. That's it. Stannis, by tradition and rights has a better claim.

Do i personally care. No.

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Is it?

Which is what ultimately matters.

Uh, no, he doesn't. The opposite, really. He does however recognize that he has no support from the law, for what little it is worth.

Precisely.

Ok, so that has what to do with honor again (since that's what spawned the conversation....or are you ignorig that again to suit your opinions?

Is it?

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