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Stannis Iron Baratheon

[Book Spoilers] Stannis

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I watched the Liam Cunningham interview on thronecast, and he managed to explain a good chunk of Davos' backstory in about a minute. They couldn't find the time to fit some important exposition in though for the TV viewers?

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I watched the Liam Cunningham interview on thronecast, and he managed to explain a good chunk of Davos' backstory in about a minute. They couldn't find the time to fit some important exposition in though for the TV viewers?

Liam Cunningham is great. I kinda wish he was Stannis cause I think he'd be great for it too.

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Yeah he is. I Just realized how much of a mess my last post was. I love how enthusiastic he is about his character and it's origins, and he didn't even read the book! That's pretty awesome.

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How do you tie the shadow to Stannis? It's easy. Catelyn, in the books, literally says "it was Stannis" about fifty times.

I misworded that. I meant how do you tie the pregnancy to Stannis or explain the preganancy at all. It would have been way too out of nowhere for the TV fan for that scene to happen without the sex scene. I gues my other complaint about the purists is I don't think they realize how much there knowlege influences what they understand and how that understanding makes them dismissively say:they didn't needed to put that in. For instance Tv fans seem to be pretty cool with the Joffrey whore scene because it DID increase there hatred for Joffrey. Book fans knowing what Joffrey is pretty much arrogantly say we didn't need that and IMO don't really acknowledge that they feel this way primarily b/c they read the book. Noone would tell Martin "really did you need to put Joffrey killing Cats" in the book, we already knew what a monster he is, yet they turn around and get mad at the producers for putting a teenage equivalent in there.

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Stannis can join the list of people that come worse off as the show tries to glorify the Starks. Makes sense though, as they are "the good guys" (in a series famous for not being about good and bad guys in any objective manner, though I'd argue that the truth behind that reputation is arguable)

Stannis comes off as a villain in ACOK though, big time. Between Melisandre's shadow babies and his intending to storm Kings Landing, he really isn't cast in the best of lights.

Stannis doesn't really end up closer to sympathetic until ADWD.

IMHO, if the show is glorifying anyone, it's Tyrion, not the Starks. With the way things are going, Sansa will look like a tool for not wanting to marry him in ASOS, I think.

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Stannis doesn't really end up closer to sympathetic until ADWD.

I'd argue more the end of Storm of Swords. While Stannis definitely seems villainous when we're reading from, say, Cat's point of view, I don't think you get the same impression from Davos. Also, nowhere does Stannis say he's going to sack King's Landing and I really don't think he would've done that to the city he meant to rule over, especially since he gelds his men for raping people.

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I'd argue more the end of Storm of Swords. While Stannis definitely seems villainous when we're reading from, say, Cat's point of view, I don't think you get the same impression from Davos. Also, nowhere does Stannis say he's going to sack King's Landing and I really don't think he would've done that to the city he meant to rule over, especially since he gelds his men for raping people.

Stannis doesn't say it no, but Cersei and Tyrion have got a different view. Hence Cersei's comments about there being a dearth of sacking songs.

Stannis himself may not approve of a sack, but it's not like he can control everyone.

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^ Isn't that true though. He did sleep with her and Mel did seem to go after Jon too.

I don't know anyone who read the books first and that's the first thing that comes to mind when they think of Stannis. Not to mention, it's so subtle that many casual readers right not even notice it.

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Stannis comes off as a villain in ACOK though, big time. Between Melisandre's shadow babies and his intending to storm Kings Landing, he really isn't cast in the best of lights.

Stannis doesn't really end up closer to sympathetic until ADWD.

IMHO, if the show is glorifying anyone, it's Tyrion, not the Starks. With the way things are going, Sansa will look like a tool for not wanting to marry him in ASOS, I think.

I thought it was easier to sympathize with Stannis because of Cressen. He knew the good boy who was hurt just too many times to smile.

I diasagree about Tyrion and Sansa. I thought Sansa was rude to Tyrion and ignorant. She didn't see the good behind people's looks and reputations, as was how she was initially with the Hound. She embarrassed and made a fool of Tyrion at their wedding (not on purpose, but she was not all that ashamed by doing it). I found it easy to sympathize for Tyrion and wanted to slap Sansa and tell her that she was being looked out for.

But, I do agree that the show is glorifying him. I think the Starks have all been done pretty accurately.

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I thought it was easier to sympathize with Stannis because of Cressen. He knew the good boy who was hurt just too many times to smile.

I diasagree about Tyrion and Sansa. I thought Sansa was rude to Tyrion and ignorant. She didn't see the good behind people's looks and reputations, as was how she was initially with the Hound. She embarrassed and made a fool of Tyrion at their wedding (not on purpose, but she was not all that ashamed by doing it). I found it easy to sympathize for Tyrion and wanted to slap Sansa and tell her that she was being looked out for.

But, I do agree that the show is glorifying him. I think the Starks have all been done pretty accurately.

Sansa was a 13 year old girl forced to marry someone she didn't want. Why should she submit to that? Book Tyrion thinks her a total airhead as well throughout. Tyrion agreeing with Tywin to marry Sansa is not his finest moment at all. He does it mainly because he wants Winterfell and thinks Sansa will make a pretty wife, with no thoughts what so ever about what she will think. She didn't even learn about it until the same day, and tried to run off.

Sansa had no idea whether or not he'd go back on his promise not to rape her (Tywin is pressuring Tyrion to consummate the marriage as well), and before Joffrey's murder, it was pretty certain Tyrion could not protect her if Joffrey should decide to have her either, what with being the king. In no way was Sansa safe, nor happy. Check through her chapters in ASOS again, if you can't spot the depression I'd think you blind.

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I think blaming Sansa for her feeling with regards to the Tyrion marriage is ludicrous- especially as Tyrion, despite his rather flattering view of his personality and ethical standing, is only a "nice" person by Westerosi standards if at all. I seriously can't understand how uncaring some readers seem to be towards that little girl

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Everyone misunderstood me. I found her to be that way, but did not find it unjustified. She had to grow up and realize that among all of these enemies surrounding her, Tyrion was looking out for her as was the Hound. I am not saying she should have smiled and been jumping up and down about marrying Tyrion, but surely she could have been more pleasant to the man who kept her safe from Joff's rage. I know she was depressed from the second Ned was executed. The marriage was obviously horrible for her, especially given the hope from the Tyrell's plan. But I do not think that justifies her view on people that she had for so long. The good people may be ugly, and the handsome may be the cruelest. It took her growing up to realize that.

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Stannis can join the list of people that come worse off as the show tries to glorify the Starks.

Can he, however?

It seems to me that it is more like fandom made a Draco Malfoy out of Stannis. People admire him pretty much despite what he actually is and what he actually does. He is out for glory and killing and disregarding people merrily out of sheer immediate convenience ever since we met him.

Stannis as a half-hero is not really supported by the books, particularly once we begin to realize how biased towards him Davos is.

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