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Eggplant Wizard

[BOOK SPOILERS] Littlefinger, is that still you?

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the writers are forced to create scenes for LF to demonstrate that he's treacherous and dangerous as well as to reinforce our familiarity with the character).

I don't necessarily love all the choices they're making with LF, but I understand why they're being made.

Except that the scenes they've added do the exact opposite, but I understand what you mean... I think?

*chuckles*

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My thoughts about Littlefinger from the books is that when it's all over, if he's the last one standing and he gets what he wants, that's all that matters. He genuinely doesn't care what people think of him unless he needs people to think of him a certain way as a means to another end. It goes with the territory with LF and Varys that they play such a longer game than anyone else that the only way we can really judge their actions is when the game is finished. I think that portrayal still holds in the show. OK, LF tells Cat he loves (forgetting for a moment that he never met Cat at Bitterbridge) but we know he was on a mission from Tyrion (as he was in the books) and I'm pretty sure he'd do anything he thought was neccesary to achieve what he wants; make himself look weak, put himself at someone's mercy, whatever. Littlefinger's mind doesn't work like most characters. He doesn't care if he loses face in the short term, when all around them have lost their heads or are ruined and he's still keeping his head above water, that's when he knows, he's won. For me, TV LF is still consistent with that.

We've already seen Tyrion play LF in the books over Myrcella's betrothal. And LF does have an arrogant streak where he's cheeky to those in more powerful positions than him. Ned already came very close to hurting him, Tyrion could easily have done the same at many points in the book. It's entirely conceivable that his tongue could have gotten him in trouble around Cersei in the manner of the TV show. In the books Tyrion considers having him killed but recognises that he has too much use to waste like that. It's Tyrion's restraint and intelligence that stay his hand, Cersei has neither of those things so could easily be pushed to threaten or hurt much quicker than Tyrion.

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That's one of the major plot holes in the tv show. You especially wonder why Varys hasn't done away with him yet, given how they've established Varys as a masterful player of the game. During the first season, the added scenes with Littlefinger and Varys seemed like some of the best additions. However, in retrospect, given how they have developed Littlefinger, they immediately become the most silly. You simply cannot believe that Varys hasn't removed him from the equation in some way given what he knows about Varys comings and goings. They've established Littlefinger as a bumbling fool and it's just laughable that Varys allows his "inconvenience" to persist. Major major plot hole/suspension of disbelief issues there.

It may be that it suites Varys' purpose to keep him around. We don't know how well he has LF figured out. Perhaps taking LF out of the game will lead to more trouble for Varys instead of less.

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I agree that TV Littlefinger is a shadow of the book character. I realize that they have to add some scenes to keep the actor happy, but I have not been happy with the scenes they have written. One would get the impression that he is a brothel manager who is Master of Coin in his free time rather than the Master of Coin who happens to own some brothels among his many investments. TV Littlefinger is a poor politician and very open with his plans, feelings and information. Now some here argue that this is how he was then, and he will "grow" into the master planner we see later, but the problem with that is his plans revealed later, started way back before season 1, when he

had Lysa kill Jon Arryn.

.

Book Littlefinger reminds me of Benjamin Linus on LOST or Verbal Kint in the Usual Suspects, who initially seem to be pawns or completely unthreatening and only much later do we find out what they truely are. That was the type of character I was hoping Littlefinger would be on the TV show. Unfortunately, if the changes continue on their current course, it will make seeing him as a master mind villain later either be completely predictable or completely unbelieveable.

If they needed more scenes for the actor, I wish they would have added scenes showing how he was selling postions in the government for money, or reinvesting the crowns money. Have some of his spies reporting to him. It might even make Ros a more acceptable part of the show if she was spying for Littlefinger rather than being directed by him in a medieval porno. I think that added scenes should accentuate the book's interpretation of a character, not completely contradict it as most of the created Littlefinger scenes have done.

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There is a definite difference in subtlety that book LF possesses that this TV LF doesn't. TV version should have gotten himself killed already. Once by Varys and another with Cersei. I get that HBO is more visual and they needed exposition, but I wish they handled LF better, especially considering the great potential we started with by having the actor who played Mayor Carcetti.

One concession I'll make is that the awesomeness of LF was filled in by the reader, as in the books he doesn't get a lot of dialog and is usually in the background. We see the results of his labor but not the specific mechanics of how he achieved his goals. We simply assume he did it in an awesome way.

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Good points Tadco, also:

There is a definite difference in subtlety that book LF possesses that this TV LF doesn't. TV version should have gotten himself killed already. Once by Varys and another with Cersei. I get that HBO is more visual and they needed exposition, but I wish they handled LF better, especially considering the great potential we started with by having the actor who played Mayor Carcetti.

One concession I'll make is that the awesomeness of LF was filled in by the reader, as in the books he doesn't get a lot of dialog and is usually in the background. We see the results of his labor but not the specific mechanics of how he achieved his goals. We simply assume he did it in an awesome way.

Yep, that's what I was saying. It reminds me of all the hate the latest Metroid got because Samus was acting out of character. She didn't have much character to begin with, just what people built up for her. Here, I think we're doing that with LF but I also think we know some important core things about him. (although we don't know much)

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I agree with most everyone on this thread. Littlefinger became my favorite character in the whole series by books 3 and 4; before then, he was just some schemer in the court, with the occasional appearance and the occasional surprise (Ned's death, Tyrell recruitment) - I thought him definetly above Pycelle but definetly below Varys and Tyrion. It was by the Purple Wedding and his reveals shortly after that I came to be fascinated by this character.

With this said, I do not know why they are making the character so plain for everyone to see right now, in seasons 1 and 2. For me, at least, my interest in this guy derives from the fact that you always knew he was a bit of a scumbag, but you never had any idea just how much. He may well have been the person most directly responsible for the War of the five kings, for crying out loud, and managed to come out of it winning big - and this came as a complete shock to me. So I simply cannot understand why did they not choose to just let LF be the quiet, greasy, superficially friendly guy he is in the books - and just come out in seasons 4/5 and blow everyone's mind.

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