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R+L+J Evidence

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You will find the evidence within the conversation. I don't think that there is much value in starting another R+L=J thread, as the big one is supposed to act as a 'catch all' for this theory.

You won't have to read all 23 or 24 (whatever we are up to) versions of the thread, as the main arguments are fairly cyclical.

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The evidence is dotted throughout the 24 R+L=J threads, but some quick points:

Promise me, she had cried in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. (Ned, from GOT)

That he repeatedly recalls this "promise" throughout his POV is taken to mean that she asked him to promise her that he'd keep Jon safe. The blood/ fever are thought to be byproducts of childbirth.

Then Ned's dream of the battle at the Tower of Joy, especially Gerold Hightower saying "the Kingsguard does not flee" when Ned asks why he hasn't left with Darry, Rhaella and Viserys. The suggestion is that R+L's union was legitimate, so that Jon is the true heir, and the kingsguard are rightfully doing their duty.

The fact that Ned never calls Jon his son, even in his own POV. Also, the fact that Ned remains entirely silent on the issue of Jon's mother.

In the House of the Undying, Dany sees a "blue flower growing in a chink of ice." Lyanna is associated with blue flowers (winter roses), and Jon is thought to be the blue flower growing in said ice.

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From what I can gather, the evidence appears to really be the lack of opposing evidence [wishes she owned the books]. By the way, I'm not at all well versed in this theory.

  • Lyanna made Ned promise her something. It's unclear what, so that's a mystery unto itself.
  • Lyanna died in a pool of her own blood. Why?
  • Elia had two children and was too sickly to have a third. As confirmed in ACOK in The House of the Undying, Rhaegar was a little obsessed with having his three heads of the dragon with his children. He wanted a third, and couldn't have one through Elia.

There are probably other things, but that's enough on that front for now. So far, this indicates that there is probably a child - but where?

Well, if Ned found Lyanna dying in a pool of her own blood, presumably from childbirth, what would he have done with the child? Sent him away? Told the world? Killed him? Or fostered him himself?

Judging by what we know about Ned in AGOT, it seems fairly likely that he sacrificed his honor to protect his nephew - not too unlike what he does at the end of AGOT when he decides that the safety of his daughters are more important than his honor.

Personally, one of the things I use to convince myself is Jon himself. I have a theory (it's sort of a pointless one, really) that Ygritte was pregnant when she died. For literally no other reason than that she and Jon had sex, what, two to three times a day? It's implied (by Robert, I believe) that Rhaegar and Lyanna did something similar. How could she not be pregnant?

Starting in the fifth book, I think Martin's teasing us with this now. One of the visions Bran sees in the heart tree is Ned kneeling before the tree and saying something to the nature of, "May my lady wife forgive me, and may they grow up as brothers..." Or something to that effect. Which sounds incredibly sketchy.

I also recall one passage in the first book after Ned visits one of Robert's bastards when he thinks of Jon and Lyanna, separately, with seemingly minimal connection.

Man, can you imagine the first fan to realize this? That must've been so exciting.

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Ned remembers that he found Lyanna "in her bed of blood".

While I have no doubt that there was probably some blood around (Lyanna probably died of puerperal fever), I don't think that she was literally laying in a pool of her own blood, or anything as bad as that.

A "bed of blood" or "the bloody bed" is a term that we hear several times within the series and essentially it is a colloquial term that means in child bed, or child birth, or the birthing bed, however you want to phrase it.

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