Greyjoy Rebellion

[Lummel]

It sounds very colonial to me. People in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand & Co were all very clear that their native cultures were inferior, inclined to robbery, violence and disorder too.

On the other hand its clear in AFFC that there is a process of assimilation taking place in the Iron Islands. The problem, if you will, is that the greyjoys are ultraconservative, had the Harlows been the ruling family over the Iron Islands things would look quite different I think.

[Lord of Cardiff]

Is it really a relegion if their god advocates rape, murder, slavery and pillage. Isnt it more of a death cult.

Of course it's a religion, I don't agree with it either but it's their beliefs.

[Batman]

You could argue Islamic culture encourages the same, would you propose a similar solution to problems in the middle eastern world?

I have no solutions to problems relating to the current situation in the middle east. Those issues are far too complex for some asshole posting on a forum to solve. I honestly didnt see this question going this way, I was more curious to see what people thought about the Ironborn situation considering it really came back to haunt Robert and the North during the war of the five kings.

[The Last Direwolf]

You'd outlaw their religion, who does that remind you of?

A religion that actively encourages it's members to rape, murder and loot innocent people. Judaism does not. I would be suppressing a religion for the good of everyone, Hitler suppressed and murdered followers of a religion that wasn't doing any wrong. There is a difference.

[Batman]

Of course it's a religion, I don't agree with it either but it's their beliefs.

Just looked up the dictionary definiton and I guess it is

• "The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods."
  
• "Details of belief as taught or discussed."
  
• At this time I would like to declare that The Justice League is my religion
  

[jarl the climber]

In the end Balon bent the knee and Robert spared him. It wasn't until after the uprising that the Drowned God cult started to become militant. Before the uprising the 7 had been tolerated on the Islands. Aerons interpetation of the religion might not be the only one.

For the most part it is made up of men who abandon titles and wealth and live a communal existance by the sea and they do not bear arms except for a driftwood cudgel.

[Lord of Cardiff]

A religion that actively encourages it's members to rape, murder and loot innocent people. Judaism does not. I would be suppressing a religion for the good of everyone, Hitler suppressed and murdered followers of a religion that wasn't doing any wrong. There is a difference.

The only difference is your opinion, you'd be getting rid of a religion which you feel is for the better, which is what a lot of the Nazi's felt about Judaism. You need to take a step back from your judging the ironborn from your own culture, it's quite amusing how much you keep sounding like Hitler.

[The Last Direwolf]

The only difference is your opinion, you'd be getting rid of a religion which you feel is for the better, which is what a lot of the Nazi's felt about Judaism. You need to take a step back from your judging the ironborn from your own culture, it's quite amusing how much you keep sounding like Hitler.

No, the only difference is the millions of lives that the ironborn claim with their relentless rebellions and reavings and returning to the Old Way. The Jews did nothing like this. Hitler's way of dealing with it was different as well. He wanted to completely destroy the Jews, if I were Robert, I would only change their governance and ideology. There is a difference.

[Lord of Cardiff]

No, the only difference is the millions of lives that the ironborn claim with their relentless rebellions and reavings and returning to the Old Way. The Jews did nothing like this. Hitler's way of dealing with it was different as well. He wanted to completely destroy the Jews, if I were Robert, I would only change their governance and ideology. There is a difference.

You are so shockingly narrow minded, can you even see past your own Hitler arse?

[LordBloodraven]

It still registers as genocide.

Well, the Greyjoys and the Ironborn are very fond and romanticizes much "the Old Way". They are keen on paying the iron price for every little thing. So it could be argued that they are on a genocidal and eugenicist streak, but anyways that is one of the justifications of many mass murderers.

This thread shows how much people actually agreed with Hitler's policies.

Contexts are quite different if you look at it. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, the superior one, should be protected from the conspiray of the jews, and all those guys that displeased him. He scapegoated innocent people and butchered them.

The Greyjoys and their ironborn believes that the Old way is the only way of life for them and that raiding and raping greenlanders is a show of force and courage. They believed that they were superior to any other culture, and so it is perfectly legit to pay the iron price on poor innocent fisherfolk. Should we leave those on the coasts of Westeros as the backyard playground of the Ironborn?

[SerBlackfyre]

If you hang everybody who don't obey you control them

iron born dont just stand in line waiting to be hanged...remeber your on their land aswell which they know alot better than any occupier would.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Contexts are quite different if you look at it. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, the superior one, should be protected from the conspiray of the jews, and all those guys that displeased him. He scapegoated innocent people and butchered them.

The Greyjoys and their ironborn believes that the Old way is the only way of life for them and that raiding and raping greenlanders is a show of force and courage. They believed that they were superior to any other culture, and so it is perfectly legit to pay the iron price on poor innocent fisherfolk. Should we leave those on the coasts of Westeros as the backyard playground of the Ironborn?

I tried to stay away from Hitler and focus on smaller genocides, there is no shortage of those. But these statements aren't very far apart.

The Nazis blamed the Jews for the dire situation of german society and economy. It was 99% bogus and 1% happenstance interpreted in the wrong way.

You blame the Ironborn for the dire situation of coastal society and economy, based on two PoVs. And you forget guys like the Reader, Lord Greenmont or whoever the guy in the Damphair chapter was, partly Asha, Asha's boygroup and all the little, non-influential guys.

[The Last Direwolf]

You are so shockingly narrow minded, can you even see past your own Hitler arse?

I'm not even going to carry this on now. You're obviously here just to wind people up with your persistent bullshit.

[unRobert]

I think constant Hitler and Nazi comparisons make you look uneducated. Throughout all of our real history you cannot come up with closer analogies? You need to go for the most well known and shocking situation, regardless of how well it compares to this fictional culture and a reader's opinion on it? So sick of every situation with the slightest notion of persecution or cultural judgement being immediately deemed Nazism.

The Iron Islands are a kingdom in Westeros. They fight other kingdoms. It's pretty different.

[The Frosted King]

It sounds very colonial to me. People in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand & Co were all very clear that their native cultures were inferior, inclined to robbery, violence and disorder too.

On the other hand its clear in AFFC that there is a process of assimilation taking place in the Iron Islands. The problem, if you will, is that the greyjoys are ultraconservative, had the Harlows been the ruling family over the Iron Islands things would look quite different I think.

The problem is the ironmen, first men, andals and rhoynish are all transplanted cultures in westeros.

Now that the realm is at peace and autonomy is present, one of these cultures is deciding to pillage, rape and enslave the others.

So its not similar to the colonial process, in that none of these cultures are native to westeros, so they all are on an even plane for judgement.

Now, had the cotf, giants etc been the ones making war on the men of westeros, i'd be fine with it, since they were there first, and it could be seen as reclaiming lost territory.

To me, its not genoicide if the actions taken by the targets are actually a proven harm to the realm.(again, what happened 80 years ago was fabricated scapegoating, born of jealousy and mistrust).

[LordBloodraven]

I tried to stay away from Hitler and focus on smaller genocides, there is no shortage of those. But these statements aren't very far apart.

The Nazis blamed the Jews for the dire situation of german society and economy. It was 99% bogus and 1% happenstance interpreted in the wrong way.

You blame the Ironborn for the dire situation of coastal society and economy, based on two PoVs. And you forget guys like the Reader, Lord Greenmont or whoever the guy in the Damphair chapter was, partly Asha, Asha's boygroup and all the little, non-influential guys.

If you read my earlier posts, you'll see that I suggested the Reader as possible Warden of the Iron Islands. I don't "blame" them for anything that they didn't do; but reaving and killing innocent people because it is part of your culture is unacceptable

[Winterfell is Burning]

The adult Greyjoys should have been killed or sent to the Wall. There wouldn't even be a need to sent Theon to Winterfell: keep him there as actual Lord of Pyke, have the Reader become Lord Protector and try to teach some good sense to him.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

If you read my earlier posts, you'll see that I suggested the Reader as possible Warden of the Iron Islands. I don't "blame" them for anything that they didn't do; but reaving and killing innocent people because it is part of your culture is unacceptable

Yes, but you don't go as far as to suggest the complete extermination of the Ironborn iirc. Some others did and my initial statement was primarily aimed at them.

[ARYa_Nym]

TBH, I find the Dothraki, Ironborn, and wildlings to be very similar in that they rape and pillage. You'll find innocents and perpetrators in all three groups though.

[LordBloodraven]

Yes, but you don't go as far as to suggest the complete extermination of the Ironborn iirc. Some others did and my initial statement was primarily aimed at them.

Yep, but old way lords need to be replaced. A man like the Reader would make an excellent Lord of the Iron Islands but will he be respected by his people? All those priests that leans on the dangerous fringe of the iron born culture need to be exiled/sent to the Wall. You install new priests and lords more pragmatic (Asha style) and they might coexist with other Westerosi