[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

[ace]

That was a good one.

I thought Renly's death was well done. Though Brienne saying the shadow looked like Stannis is ridiculous. She might've seen Stannis once for about 30 seconds and already she can recognize his face in that black shifting smoke. But what bothered me more is her saying she only got to touch him once. That sounds to me like she wanted for him. Like sexually. Brienne? I don't think so.

In Winterfell it looks like Bran will be having the green dreams instead of Jojen. Give me back my Reeds. :bawl: Also there had to be some serious suspension of disbelief for me to accept that Theon with the crew of a single ship (100 if I'm very generous) can besiege 1 castle and take another. I just don't understand this change. There were no budget of time reasons for it, it's like change for change's sake. And it isn't good change. Also it was funny watching Yara trying to show swagger. It sits on her like humility on Asha.

I don't remember was the wildfire Cersei's idea in the book too? I thought that was all Tyrion but I could be wrong.

Jon in the north was good I thought. Tywin talking to Arya? Like Robb and the nurse in the last episode it's so very Hollywood though so not ASOIAF. I still can't help feeling that Jaqen is too plain for me.

Across the narrow sea we got another glimpse of a dragon. For all of 20 seconds. I guess that should last us until next season. I'm worried the house of the undying will be chopped down to barely a hut. 1 room, 1 minute and she's out. It was actually too long in the book, but I hope they won't cut too much. And who was that woman that talked to Jorah? I don't remember her at all in the book.

I continue to be impressed by how well Davos is portrayed. As good as Stannis is bad.

Finally, no porn at all in this episode. What's up with that? Did the SNL skit get through to to them, or will we be "compensated" by a full 20 minutes next episode?

[White Harbors Wrath]

It was pretty obvious in the books that Brienne was in love w/ Renly so I don't see what's so odd about her words...

[legba11]

Excellent episode. Renly's death felt a bit flat to me, I will judge it on the reaction of my friends who did not know it was coming.

Everything else hit the mark. HARD.

Arya staring down Tywin might be my favorite moment of the entire series so far. And they follow it up with her empowerment. Her story is a rough one, but the moment Jaqen gives her the three, she goes from being kicked and shoved through the story to being the kicker and shover. Because she is my favorite character (along with Jaime), this marks one of my favorite moments of the books. The death of the Tickler was well done too. Yes it wasn't who was killed in the books. The Tickler was a fine choice for the show.

Beyond the wall looked perfect, glad they ponied up the money for the trip to Iceland.

Xaro's party scene worked, as did Jorah's plea to Dany. For the first time, that storyline was interesting this season. (It is the worst part of CoK IMO)

Catelyn and Brienne were effective together. They are making Brienne truly a monster physically. Great direction.

Stannis was excellent. The best he's been so far. For the first time, he grabbed the scene from Davos, as he should.

Bronn was as great as he's been since he met Tywin. He continues to define perfect casting. A rare time you are rooting for him as opposed to Tyrion.

[David Selig]

It's pretty strongly hinted in the books that Brienne killed one of the two men-at-arms who attacked her after Renly's death. "She (Catelyn) glanced back, saw the second guardsman fall, his blade dropping from limp fingers."

I was still a bit disappointed with the scene though, I wanted to see Cat participate in the fight, as she did in the books by hitting one of those who fought Brienne with a brazier. It would've made Brienne swearing fealty to her better reasoned. Plus why not show how Brienne and Cat sneaked out of the camp, it would've been quite a tense scene, especially for those who haven't read the books.

Apart from that, very good episode overall. LF for once this season behaved like a competent plotter, not some clumsy wannabe. The dragon was so adorable and awesome. Rickon sighting! Tiryon was fine as usual, though they are taking the childishness of their enmity with Cersei to an even higher level than in the books. Why wouldn't she tell him she's planning to use wildfire for defending the city? For once even the NW scenes didn't drag for me, mostly because of the awesome view all around, it was spectacular to watch, some really impressive shots. Plus Sam continues to be great.

I know it's shallow, but I wanted to see Doreah naked, she looked stunning in this episode. Hopefully in the next one, they did tease the viewers rather blatantly with that possibility of that. Better her than Ros or another random LF whore to fill the boobs quota.

Edited April 30, 2012 by David Selig

[Gurney Halleck]

I spotted a Sulphur-crested Cockatoo in Qarth! @ 34:52!

Pretty sure I saw the same sort of parrot in Rome.

HBO loves Australian Fauna. As do I.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Gurney Halleck

[TC_Chaos]

Pretty good episode. More building up to the grand finale fight on BW. I was just reading the IGN comment section and it seems that people are crying for boobs in this episode. I have to say I am disappointed in them not staying true to the Qarth dress. Come on now. The second most anticipated scene for me this season (first being the Battle of BW) was seeing Dany in the Qarth dress. I know some people will say the breast mongers should get on with their lives, but come on now. How awesome it would have been to shock the audience who are non-readers.

[Isy]

Dagmer being a stranger to Theon - why? And the Fist is waaay too far north. This is like land of always winter north, instead of the haunted forest.

Yeah I thought it was meant to be a hill sticking out of a wintry forest - it looked way too exposed!

Giving Bran Jojen's dreams? Bah.

See, I actually felt this worked. How the scene went very quiet just with Bran's voice and the slowing of the camera - thought it was really cleverly done. Also, without J/M there, Winterfell feels that much more isolated. I thought Bran's scenes were all in all brilliant this episode and I found myself really cheering for him when he took charge re: Torrhen's Square.

I envisage J/M turning up early Season 3, finding Bran, Osha, Hodor and Rickon in the woods when all else seems very bleak for those characters.

[Carne]

Having every female in the scene hang their tit out would be very distracting, hence why they didn't do it.

[lmanion]

2 Dragons in Qarth! When Doreah puts Drogons cage back Rhaegal I think is in the cage to the left

[Ran]

In AFfC, it's clear that Brienne's never killed a man. She did lop off one's hand, true enough, but it looks like the fellow who fell with his sword falling from his hand was somehow knocked out or stunned rather than killed.

Are people distracted by every National Geographic-style documentary featuring tribes that go practically naked? Really? I don't really understand why folks can't just be adults, but I suppose that may be expecting much.

Not that I'm strongly arguing the point of the Qartheen gowns, as such, although I'm a bit bothered by the explanation Emilia Clarke has given ("It'd be a step backward for Dany", basically, which is just ... wrong.)

[Apoapsis]

I don't understand the change from the three-eyed crow to the three-eyed raven. Do they think that TV viewers don't know that there are different types of corvids?

The Fist is a lot more impressive than I imagined it. And how is Jon going to find the dragonglass weapons and bring them back to his friends if he leaves with Qhorin this early?

[Gurney Halleck]

For a more serious opinion, I say it was an admirable and worthy adaptation of the book.

Firstly, I'm not a book purist. I have read all the novels a few times, and it's as Tolkien would say "Un-film-able"

I love HBO. They have served me well on (above) average. The Wire, Sopranos, Larry David and his stupid crap...

I love this new season. Embrace it. Live it...(as we clearly all are)

Get on board with the amazing production, score, writing, cinematography, and ACTING.

Please, be a friend on this.

Yours truly,

Fellow Westeros Member.

[boojam]

Going to mention again something that did not make it as a topic in E04 (not sure why).

Wish something had of happened ,S1, like each episode getting 10 million viewers, some kind of insane ratings that HBO could have told D&D to do CoK and SoS as 4 episodes. Yeah sounds crazy.

Knowing the rich tapestry of of CoK and SoS (I am among those who think they are the best novels so far) trying jam the stuff from CoK into just one season was going to cause some economics of narrative that were going to leave a story that seems a bit scrambled.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

I could see where a lot of elaboration, in the novel, could be cut, but some valuable story and character development is getting lost... and no, no! I don't want a transliteration. Having the visual narrative encapsulate miles of words from the books was going to be a tremendous plus... but some of the charm of the novel is now leaking through story rush.

I won't mention it again.

Edited April 30, 2012 by boojam

[Michaelj]

@ace

Theon only had 100 or so people in the books. This wasn't a change as he was meant to attack fishing towns remember?

[boojam]

Did I see the comet in the opening sequence? I haven't noticed it before tonight. LOVE the new map!

The comet was so effective the first episode, and plays a role for a while longer in CoK , maybe D&D thought it would seem over used, if so I disagree with them.

[boojam]

Jaqen H'ghar was exactly how I pictured him in the books.

Tom Wlaschiha is really riveting when he's on screen.

Odd ball dialog, mixing first and third person stuff.

But then we discussed this before here, even finding that George had done it too, tho a lot less of it.

Someone needs to ask George if that deliberate or a mistake in the book.

[The Anti-Targ]

I think it's great that Qarth seems comfortable and homey for Dany at the moment. Funny I kinda disagree with all the disappointments from Linda and Elio's review apart from not dooing the shadow assassin right. I did think that Renly's shadow on the tent moved strangely / ominously so I agree that they might have tried to do it according to the book, but there was a last minute change. Perhaps there was some difficulty with making it look right and it was quicker to do a Lost-esque thing which they had to settle for due to time constraints.

Didn't mind Loras not blaming Cat/Brienne, but yeah I thought Loras' grief was otherwise a bit too muted. He could at least have punched one of the guardsmen in the face with a mailed fist and blamed them for letting an assassin get through them.

So without the bloody mummers is it going to be Northmen (Roose) who capture Jaime and Brienne. Upon capture they are still loyal to Robb, so cut off his hand, then they turn their cloak and send Jaime on his merry way. Will they keep Brienne there for Jaime to come back and rescue? Or will they save time and send her off with Jaime?

The more the series goes on the more they will cut for expediency and because cutting something early means whole threads unravel, so minor plot lines get bent out of all recognition.

It's interesting, in CoK I supported in general Stannis' cause. But I'm finding Stannis to be not worthy of support in the TV series. If there's one plotline I think they've done poorly it's Stannis', and it remains one of the flaws of this episode for me. Stannis comes off as petulant, and altogether too personally ambitious for the Iron Throne. He should be the iron - grim, hard and unyielding - that Donal Noye (is that right?) describes him as in the book. In the book I can see why Davos is so loyal to Stannis, in the TV show I can't for the life of me understand why Davos would be so unwaveringly loyal.

I thought it was a strong episode and best of season to date. The other highly analytical, non-professional watchers of the show, but who know nothing of the book all breathed a huge sigh of relief that the season very much got back on track and were very glad to leave episode 4 behind. Interestingly I think there is a widening divergence of opinion on the merits of episodes between book enthusiasts and unspoiled non-readers. Objectively I think this was strong drama, but subjectively there was plenty of divergence from the book with which book fans can choose to be upset / disappointed.

[Rockroi]

Are people distracted by every National Geographic-style documentary featuring tribes that go practically naked? Really? I don't really understand why folks can't just be adults, but I suppose that may be expecting much.

I don't know; has Saturday Night Live lampooned a show for excessive nudity amd compared it to having a 13 year old being a consultant vs. National Geographic?

Look, its not that people are botherd by nudity; its that they are bothered by this nudity and its sloppy and ham-fisted execution. And its not like those people are on an island or a vocal minority. People have noticed how silly it has become.

[boojam]

I don't like Davos potentially taking the fall for Blackwater.

Don't know why introducing Ser Imry Florent as the fleet commander would have confused the audience.

I don't see where he is set up for that. In the novel it is Stannis and Florent who ignore Davos's idea to send some of Salladhor Saan's quick ships as a probe. They would have discovered the chain. So really, in the end, and I think they will keep it, Stannis has only himself to blame.

[boojam]

This second season in general really isn't doing it for me.. I feel there is just a lot missing/being rushed with arya... then again fitting it all in 10 episodes is ridiculous to begin with.

the only episode I can honestly say I like so far this season is Ep3.

I think the 10 episode thing is going to be a continuing curse, even with a season 3 now.

I wish HBO had of announced a season 3 and 4 but don't think the bean counters would let that happen.