[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

[boojam]

The pyromancer claimed that it was wyldfire that kept the Targaryens in power after the dragons were gone. It makes some sense. Was it referenced in the books?

That's claimed in the books, but I don't know how many people really believed it.

Now King Aerys was a nut case about wyldfire which was part of his downfall.

[legba11]

Tywin not lashing out at Arya's stare: How foolish would that make him look? He's already been overbearing and petty, sending away one his officers for a complaint that they aren't getting enough sleep. This is a legit complaint that officers should bring to their general, because if their men aren't sleeping enough it will adversely affect them. But Tywin has to flex his authority muscle, and he decides to do it on this chump. Now he engages a servant (little girl at that) and he is going to smack her down for staring at him? How pathetic would that make him look? He would have to acknowledge that she threatened him. That's part of the brilliance of that scene. He has walked himself into a trap. And Arya (bless her heart) clamps it shut on him. Either he has to ignore her implied threat or he becomes a blustering Jofferey like ruler.

[Sworn Shield]

I really didn't like Renly's death it wasn't dramitic enough and felt overly rushed.

[boojam]

Ok, so here we are half way through and we have only seen Drogon twice, pretty quick at that.

I thought for sure Dany was , in that scene, going to tell somebody , quickly, why she had named the three Viserion and Rhaegal and Drogon.

We have not seen all three since E10 of S1.

Edited April 30, 2012 by boojam

[Mr. E]

Ok, so here we are half way through and we have only seen Drogon twice, pretty quick at that.

I thought for sure Dany was , in that scene, going to tell somebody , quickly, why she had named the three Viserion and Rhaegal and Drogon.

We have not seen all three since E10 or S1.

Not to make it all about money here, but CGI is very expensive (unless you want it to look like something off the Syfy channel), and we've already heard that they devoted a large amount of the show's budget to Blackwater--so I would say that accounts for some of the absence of the dragons, and even the direwolves.

[Greywolf2375]

The episode was ok.

Started off with a clunk - the Renly death scene had no subtlety or art to it. We get the shadow ooze across the floor and then a 4th body is in the tent. Gwendoline was fantastic in it first reminding people that she is a bad ass warrior, then letting people know she is a person in love. Thought the scene with Brienne and Cat with the vow was well done.

Littlefinger still just doesn't do it for me. I do like that they are putting Marg's desires out in front of us - it's been said, I think this is a good translation of her that we only got to see after a few books of putting all her little pieces together.

Qarth was ok - the vault/key thing was a little odd though. I did like the "dracarys" scene with the first failed breathe then the second one worked.

The Tywin/Arya scene was cool - but as cautious as Tywin is I don't see him standing for a servant challenging him like that. Arya & Jaqen are off to a good start. Don't really mind the change in order of her 3 kills, do wonder when we will hear in a report about Dondarrions people so that it doesn't just fall off the map.

The scenery of north of the wall was great, but why does Mormont need to put down Jon as a steward & that he got knocked out by Craster? Why does Jon need to volunteer and puff up his chest? We get to the same point with Halfhand just saying "I'll take a,b,c ....and Snow."

The look on Tyrions face when he walked into the vault with the wildfire was perfect - I do hope they keep in the point later about the pyromancers finding more ripe fruit out in the city. Kind of a nice look on Cersei's face as well when she commented about the King - another realization on her part that she is losing/has lost any control she thought she was getting.

[Ghost714]

It's pretty strongly hinted in the books that Brienne killed one of the two men-at-arms who attacked her after Renly's death. "She (Catelyn) glanced back, saw the second guardsman fall, his blade dropping from limp fingers."

I was still a bit disappointed with the scene though, I wanted to see Cat participate in the fight, as she did in the books by hitting one of those who fought Brienne with a brazier. It would've made Brienne swearing fealty to her better reasoned. Plus why not show how Brienne and Cat sneaked out of the camp, it would've been quite a tense scene, especially for those who haven't read the books.

Apart from that, very good episode overall. LF for once this season behaved like a competent plotter, not some clumsy wannabe. The dragon was so adorable and awesome. Rickon sighting! Tiryon was fine as usual, though they are taking the childishness of their enmity with Cersei to an even higher level than in the books. Why wouldn't she tell him she's planning to use wildfire for defending the city? For once even the NW scenes didn't drag for me, mostly because of the awesome view all around, it was spectacular to watch, some really impressive shots. Plus Sam continues to be great.

I know it's shallow, but I wanted to see Doreah naked, she looked stunning in this episode. Hopefully in the next one, they did tease the viewers rather blatantly with that possibility of that. Better her than Ros or another random LF whore to fill the boobs quota.

You wanted to see Doreah naked, and I wanted to see Dany naked. I agree though, Doreah looked very good, but I can't get over how amazing Dany looked in the Qartheen garb, despite not having one boob showing, like in the books.

What we need is a scene with both Dany and Doreah naked!

In the books, there are a few times Dany gets lonely, and she gets some "special help" from Irri. I can only pray that this is the reason they didn't kill of Doreah in the show, like the did in the books. Doreah was trained in the pleasure Houses of Lys after all.... (crossing fingers)

I really can't imagine HBO passing up the chance to do this hot Dany scene, and it's actually in the books. All they need to do is replace Irri with Doreah, which should not be hard considering Doreah is way better looking than both Irri and Jhiqui.

Ok I am done, people can start judging now. Others are thinking it, im just saying it.

[Ran]

Look, its not that people are botherd by nudity; its that they are bothered by this nudity

But there is no nudity in Qarth, so they can't very well be bothered by its existence. The errors of the producers shouldn't reflect on the fact that in conception, the Qartheen fashion -- women with a bare breast, mean in beaded skirts -- is perfectly understandable as cultural dress that doesn't exist to titillate viewers/readers but rather emphasizes the way that Qarth is different, decadent, and strange.

[Greywolf2375]

But there is no nudity in Qarth, so they can't very well be bothered by its existence. The errors of the producers shouldn't reflect on the fact that in conception, the Qartheen fashion -- women with a bare breast, mean in beaded skirts -- is perfectly understandable as cultural dress that doesn't exist to titillate viewers/readers but rather emphasizes the way that Qarth is different, decadent, and strange.

That's very true from the perspective of world building, but from the perspective of tv audience, it would just come across as another excuse to show nudity. Since it would have been at a party, there wouldn't have even been sex to "allow" for it to be seen. There isn't a separator between "nudity & sex" from "nudity & culture" in the show because there isn't enough time to build the cultures or get background on them.

An example of that is Xaro invoking "Soumai" - ok, what does that mean? Everyone immediately nods, but the speaker still seems unsettled by Dany being allowed in What is it about that ritual that opens the doors for Dany?

[Ghost714]

But there is no nudity in Qarth, so they can't very well be bothered by its existence. The errors of the producers shouldn't reflect on the fact that in conception, the Qartheen fashion -- women with a bare breast, mean in beaded skirts -- is perfectly understandable as cultural dress that doesn't exist to titillate viewers/readers but rather emphasizes the way that Qarth is different, decadent, and strange.

Exactly! They could have gotten rid of the sleazy blowjobs etc, and kept the Qartheen fashion, it would have been way more tasteful, and the demand for nudity would be fulfilled. But no, HBO had to go and do the opposite.

[Ghost714]

That's very true from the perspective of world building, but from the perspective of tv audience, it would just come across as another excuse to show nudity. Since it would have been at a party, there wouldn't have even been sex to "allow" for it to be seen. There isn't a separator between "nudity & sex" from "nudity & culture" in the show because there isn't enough time to build the cultures or get background on them.

An example of that is Xaro invoking "Soumai" - ok, what does that mean? Everyone immediately nods, but the speaker still seems unsettled by Dany being allowed in What is it about that ritual that opens the doors for Dany?

It would have taken all of ten seconds for Xaro to explain to Dany about the Qartheen fashion. Problem solved.

Also, many people knew about the Qartheen gowns being in the books, it's something that's been talked about a lot, every since they decided to make the show.

[White Raven]

Pyat Pree was every bit as demented as he should be. Should be really interesting to see how they handle the House of the Undying...it was such a trippy sequence. And, Quaithe! I LOLed. The way she popped up and made you instantly disconcerted with that creepy mask is exactly how it reads in the book. "Stop doing that, woman!"

Really liked the scenes with Pyat Pree and Quaithe.

Other things I liked:

+ Ghost

+ Drogon

+ Ser Jorah in love

+ the whole look of the Quarth scenes (I understand they couldn't show us the whole city with their budget)

+ Jaqen H'ghar

+ Tyrion and Bronn

+ Catelyn and Brienne

+ Arya and Tywin

+ the Winterfell scences, especially Bran as Lord

Things I didn't like:

- only a little nitpick: They should have been a little more freaked out about some shadowmonster killing Renly.

[Feoreunn]

It's the strangest thing, having read the books and still having no clue what is going to happen at Harrenhal. I very much doubt Roose Bolton will go there at all, and instead go to the North to take over some of Ramsay's role. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if Arya's second name for Jaqen is Lorch and she uses the third one not to help the Northmen escape, but to help her, Gendry and Hot Pie escape the castle. If they really showed how Harrenhal is in someone else's hands every five seconds, it would become too convoluted (hell, it already is in the books) and Bolton joins the Lannister cause anyway, no need for all that song and dance. My only problem with this theory is why Bolton would turn cloak so soon, even though we saw him disagreeing with Robb's methods earlier in the show.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Feoreunn

[Sebly]

What happened to Cat's entourage? I'm pretty sure she had some guards when she arrived at Renly's camp.

Not complaining, just thought it was odd that they disappeared :)

[WITCHKING]

No Goat????????That was one huge dissapointment for me...

[boojam]

Not to make it all about money here, but CGI is very expensive (unless you want it to look like something off the Syfy channel), and we've already heard that they devoted a large amount of the show's budget to Blackwater--so I would say that accounts for some of the absence of the dragons, and even the direwolves.

They got the Blackwater money they wanted , or well , at least an extra 1 million for that episode.

I don't think CGI, good CGI , is THAT expensive, in fact I think it's price has come down.

But never mind, in an interview with Emilia Clarke last week she stated that D&D did not want to over expose the dragons , so that's their choice.

[White Raven]

What happened to Cat's entourage? I'm pretty sure she had some guards when she arrived at Renly's camp.

Not complaining, just thought it was odd that they disappeared :)

Ned's bones are still in the camp too, aren't they? I wonder if they'll ever be mentioned again.

[Lord of Cheese]

Who in the fuck is the "3 eyed RAVEN"?!

Seven bloody hells is there anything D&D will keep from the books??

They can show Roz in all her unglory but not the Qartheen dress with 1 breast exposed!! WTF!?

It is so wrong to not have Roos at Harenhal!

The shadow should have sliced Renley almost in half in his armour and have his armour cut cleanly. Its was that way in the books to show the impossibility of Brienne being the killer.

Disappointed. There is NO reason for the changes. None!

[WITCHKING]

Who in the fuck is the "3 eyed RAVEN"?!

Seven bloody hells is there anything D&D will keep from the books??

They can show Roz in all her unglory but not the Qartheen dress with 1 breast exposed!! WTF!?

It is so wrong to not have Roos at Harenhal!

The shadow should have sliced Renley almost in half in his armour and have his armour cut cleanly. Its was that way in the books to show the impossibility of Brienne being the killer.

Disappointed. There is NO reason for the changes. None!

And no Goat.Why?

[boojam]

But there is no nudity in Qarth, so they can't very well be bothered by its existence. The errors of the producers shouldn't reflect on the fact that in conception, the Qartheen fashion -- women with a bare breast, mean in beaded skirts -- is perfectly understandable as cultural dress that doesn't exist to titillate viewers/readers but rather emphasizes the way that Qarth is different, decadent, and strange.

There is another quote from Emilia Clarke , somewhere, where she said that they thought of the exposed breast thing but D&D considered it too distracting for visual narrative purposes so crossed it off. I agree with them.