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[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion


Ran
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Well, I dont think the directors are at the level of making symbolic pan-shots yet... It was a nice visual plan, but nothing more!

The only time I've been truly impressed by a shot in the series is the burning of the letter.

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Okay, we won't call them Vikings, since that is etymologically suspect. But why can't we call them Norsemen or Old Norse? There's more to the vikingr than Danes.....

Fair enough. LOL! But don't comment on this, Heaven forbid. I already got raked by the PC police. :bang: :ack:

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They crafted Dragonstone. Nobody knows how.

They're said to have been able to mold stone the way other men mold clay, or something to that effect. The implicit implication being that they used magic, but no one living knows for sure, as you said.

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No one's gonna bite on my comment about Sam wondering what the First Men looked like and the camera panning to reveal Jon Snow, eh?

I thought that it paralleled, at least superficially, Melisandre's pleading to be shown Azor Ahai in the flames and only being shown an image of "that bastard boy."

:)

Good catch!

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Yeah... honestly, it's hard for me to like him in the series, either. In the books... I don't know, he was just different, especially in how he talks to Davos. His line about "grieving Renly" felt half-hearted and tossed in there when in the books, he has a few very heart-wrenching lines to Davos about it, and I earnestly believe he does not know that he killed Renly. The whole thing with Mel saying she'll give him a son and then him ordering Davos to go do the shadowbaby was very, very, very poorly written, there has to have been a cut scene somewhere between one and the other. I'm earnestly surprised there hasn't been much complaining about it, but I guess no one really likes Stannis like I do. The show writers certainly don't - Dan Weiss said that Stannis would make a terrible king and that he lacked humanity, which - forgive me if I'm making a broad assumption here - I don't think George R. R. Martin believes. In an interview, he had said that Stannis was "a righteous man, in spite of everything else". Meh... I'm depressed.

Stephen Dillane has probably been doing a good job with what he's been given, but am I alone in thinking that the writing for Stannis' character so far has seemed very schizophrenic? Please tell me I'm not.

Your not wrong.

I don't like that Dan Weiss has made up his mind about Stannis, because I feel that he is wrong(I just watched that clip yesterday, before the new episode), and I feel like they are making Stannis the way Dan Weiss views him. I don't agree with that, because they should make Stannis the way he is in the books, that way the audience can deside how they feel about Stannis. Most people started out not liking him, and as the books went on they started to change their minds(myself included), but in the show they are making Stannis far to unlikeable, and I am fearing know one will change their minds about him as the show goes on. In my opinion, it's not right for them to tell the viewers how to feel, and that's pretty much what they are doing making Stannis so bad, instead of the awesome grey character that he is. It's like Dan Weiss judges Stannis by his cover, and forgot about a lot of good redeeming stuff about him, that we get in the later books. Dan Weiss saying Stannis would make a horrible King in that video, that did not sit well with me, especially because he said Renly would make a great King, because I don't agree with that, and it should be up to the individual to deside. Now people are going to be like, "see I told you Stannis would be horrible King, even Dan Weiss said so blah blah Renly woo!"

So I feel your frustration, and it's not just you.

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There is another quote from Emilia Clarke , somewhere, where she said that they thought of the exposed breast thing but D&D considered it too distracting for visual narrative purposes so crossed it off. I agree with them.

Amen to this. Given the grief some people give nudity on the show, this would have thrown them into a tizzy. Can you imagine the 'sexposition' talk? (yet further misuse of the term)

They made the right call. It is a quaint detail from the book that has no plot significance.

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No one's gonna bite on my comment about Sam wondering what the First Men looked like and the camera panning to reveal Jon Snow, eh?

I thought that it paralleled, at least superficially, Melisandre's pleading to be shown Azor Ahai in the flames and only being shown an image of "that bastard boy."

:)

The Starks are First Men descendants, so the camera going to Jon, I felt was a nod at that.

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Amen to this. Given the grief some people give nudity on the show, this would have thrown them into a tizzy. Can you imagine the 'sexposition' talk? (yet further misuse of the term)

They made the right call. It is a quaint detail from the book that has no plot significance.

People have a problem with the sleazy nudity, not nudity in general. So if they cut out all the blowjobs and girl on girl finger banging, they could have shown the Qarth fashion, and it would have been much more tastefully done, while still fulfilling the demand for nudity.

They had Littlefinger telling his whole life's story, while two girls were finger banging each other, so I can't understand anyone saying the Qartheen gown would be "to distracting", if that scene with LF wasn't distracting, then I don't know what is. Yet people were still able to get what LF was saying.

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Your not wrong.

I don't like that Dan Weiss has made up his mind about Stannis, because I feel that he is wrong(I just watched that clip yesterday, before the new episode), and I feel like they are making Stannis the way Dan Weiss views him. I don't agree with that, because they should make Stannis the way he is in the books, that way the audience can deside how they feel about Stannis. Most people started out not liking him, and as the books went on they started to change their minds(myself included), but in the show they are making Stannis far to unlikeable, and I am fearing know one will change their minds about him as the show goes on. In my opinion, it's not right for them to tell the viewers how to feel, and that's pretty much what they are doing making Stannis so bad, instead of the awesome grey character that he is. It's like Dan Weiss judges Stannis by his cover, and forgot about a lot of good redeeming stuff about him, that we get in the later books. Dan Weiss saying Stannis would make a horrible King in that video, that did not sit well with me, especially because he said Renly would make a great King, because I don't agree with that, and it should be up to the individual to deside. Now people are going to be like, "see I told you Stannis would be horrible King, even Dan Weiss said so blah blah Renly woo!"

So I feel your frustration, and it's not just you.

Your not wrong.

I don't like that Dan Weiss has made up his mind about Stannis, because I feel that he is wrong(I just watched that clip yesterday, before the new episode), and I feel like they are making Stannis the way Dan Weiss views him. I don't agree with that, because they should make Stannis the way he is in the books, that way the audience can deside how they feel about Stannis. Most people started out not liking him, and as the books went on they started to change their minds(myself included), but in the show they are making Stannis far to unlikeable, and I am fearing know one will change their minds about him as the show goes on. In my opinion, it's not right for them to tell the viewers how to feel, and that's pretty much what they are doing making Stannis so bad, instead of the awesome grey character that he is. It's like Dan Weiss judges Stannis by his cover, and forgot about a lot of good redeeming stuff about him, that we get in the later books. Dan Weiss saying Stannis would make a horrible King in that video, that did not sit well with me, especially because he said Renly would make a great King, because I don't agree with that, and it should be up to the individual to deside. Now people are going to be like, "see I told you Stannis would be horrible King, even Dan Weiss said so blah blah Renly woo!"

So I feel your frustration, and it's not just you.

I entirely agree ! I've just been looking at some non-readers comments and their opininion and judging of stannis just feels wrong . Nothing to do with the character as I read it.

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Did anyone notice the Sea Bitch was huge? Even if it's Asha's ship, I never thought the Ironborn ships were going to be that big. It's pretty awesome, like a full-sized frigate.

I've always pictured Iron Islands ships as Viking long boats, not European style caravelles. They are supposed to be raiders, not travelers. Which is what made Euron different from the lot.

Edited by Leto Atreides
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I totally agree that they should have shown Loras rage. I was really looking forward to that.

There was something that was a huge relief though. I love that in the books we aren't sure what Stannis knew about the shadowbaby. I was so scared the show would come out and say it and they didn't. One of the past moments was the end of Stannis' scene when they let the shot on his face for a few seconds. His chin and mouth kind of quiver, and then he goes back to stoic Stannisface. It's clear he feels something, but what? Grief? Guilt? Relief? We can all intrepret this for ourselves. Perfection!

Also, Jaqen makes my loins stir.

I agree with the general consensous that Maisie Williams is amazing. It will be such a crime if the Emmys doesn't recognise.

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They're said to have been able to mold stone the way other men mold clay, or something to that effect. The implicit implication being that they used magic, but no one living knows for sure, as you said.

There’s some suspicion, and even some evidence, that suggests that the crannogman can do that, too, and that that’s how it is that Greywater Watch moves.

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I know a lot of people had issue with Qarth scenes, but they didn't really bother me. Quite honestly, the parts of Qarth were some of the most boring in the whole series. Actually, it was one of the only boring parts in the series to me. It was one of those things where I was reading, but not really. It wasn't until after maybe 3 re-reads that I could even tell you what went on in Qarth. Considering that, I expected the writers to change things there immensely. So Qarth went from boring to goofy with this Soumai shit and Valyrian stone vaults or whatever, but at least it's entertaining. I say do whatever you want with it, D&D, just don't make the House of Undying goofy.

Edited by hk47
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Yeah, I didn't buy that either. Also, Tyrion being upset that the smallfolk viewed him as pulling Joffrey's strings. With the exception of removing Janos Slynt for his role in the bastard massacre, we really haven't seen Tyrion doing much for the smallfolk.

The notion of Tyrion being blamed because he's the new adviser in town and things "weren't so bad before" is in the books as well, and Tyrion has a similar reaction there too. Not saying his feelings aren't misplaced as you allude to, but it's taken from the text.

In the books it's right after the riot, which appears to be happening next week on the show.

Edited by Ser Hippie
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I know a lot of people had issue with Qarth scenes, but they didn't really bother me. Quite honestly, the parts of Qarth were some of the most boring in the whole series. Actually, it was one of the only boring parts in the series to me. It was one of those things where I was reading, but not really. It wasn't until after maybe 3 re-reads that I could even tell you what went on in Qarth. Considering that, I expected the writers to change things there immensely. So Qarth went from boring to goofy with this Soumai shit and Valyrian stone vaults or whatever, but at least it's entertaining. I say do whatever you want with it, D&D, just don't make the House of Undying goofy.

Agree with you here,

house of the undying is one of the most pivotal scenes for Dany's arc in COK..

If they botch this I will be forever disappointed

Another thing I will greatly P.O'd at is if Ramsay is cut out entirely. I can deal with leaving him out this season. But there must be a Reek introduction early in season 3!

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I still stand firmly by my belief that Ramsay won't be cut. He would make far too good of an HBO evil villain for them to let that go. Viewers think Joffrey is bad and messed up in the head? Yeah. They can't cut Ramsay.

Edited by hk47
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