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[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

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This hasn't been mentioned, and I'm jumping forward a bit, but Brienne makes Catelyn swear that she will not get in the way when she wants to kill Stannis. I can't recall if such a conversation exists in the books, or if they even come to the conclusion that it was Stannis, but could this possibly lead to Brienne's word which saves her from her hanging at Stoneheart's command in the future of the show?

Maybe not as a reason to get out, but to tell Catelyn basically that she never got that opportunity and she was denying it to her.

Just throwing it out there. :)

I'm pretty sure that clause exists in the books.

Good episode.

I loved how Doreah interacted with Drogon. I've alway imagined that Dany's original khalasar interacted with the dragons when they were small, almost as pets. It would have been something to bind them all together during the dangerous times. I liked the jealousy between Doreah and Irri.

Edited by CloudFlare

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Yeah, I think that ship has sailed, sadly. I had high hopes we'd see the Reeds next season, but now I'm doubting it. Jojen, at least, is now totally superfluous, since they've given his greendreams to Bran. Maybe we'll still get Meera, but probably not. Her only real purpose now would be to tell the story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree, which they can have Luwin do at some point over the next few weeks.

I'm now drifting toward the idea Luwin survives and takes Rickon, so Osha can go north with Bran and Hodor.

I really like your idea bracketed in

That makes perfect sense to me - otherwise, who would take Rickon? I've heard that the TV directors like the actress playing Osha so much (she's also one of my favorites) that they'd decided to work her into more of the show, so I guess that's why the Reeds got squeezed out and she will be the one to go beyond the wall with Bran. I also like the idea of Maester Luwin surviving, just in itself, but also because by the end of Dance, I can't think of any "decent" living maesters. Here's hoping Sam will be well on his way to getting all the links in his chain by the next book.

I loved Arya: ** Tywin ("Yo, listen up, bud - anybody can be killed") ** Gendry (Giving him pointers on fighting, but she absolutely did not miss that he was shirtless. ** Jaqen -- I LOVE his character, really fascinating and well played. However, Like someone else mentioned, I didn't think he/FM were followers of the Red God. My thinking is that the Directors just didn't catch that?

Loved Quorin Halfhand! Already raved about Brienne/Catelyn in earlier post. And the place where Brienne/Catelyn had stopped is exactly, absolutely exactly, what I'd always pictured the Riverlands to look like. I loved seeing Drogon, but weren't they calling him something different? And, I want to see the other two dragons, too, although I do understand it's very, very challenging to create each one.

Still have trouble with the Greyjoys, et. al. Just don't like any of them

until poor Reek emerges.

I am always amazed when each show ends, that it seemed so short. Tonight, it was even more so. Wish they could make some of these episodes 2 hours.

Edited by House of White and White

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Well he has Osha... they could have her have the Reeds powers

They are giving Bran the Greendreams, he had the dream of the sea washing over Winterfell etc..

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I'm pretty sure that clause exists in the books.

Good episode.

I loved how Doreah interacted with Drogon. I've alway imagined that Dany's original khalasar interacted with the dragons when they were small, almost as pets. It would have been something to bind them all together during the dangerous times. I liked the jealousy between Doreah and Irri.

In tho books, Dany's talks about how her Khalasar are very prideful about the dragons, and I got the same feeling that they were kind of like little pets to everyone in the Khalasar(at first, not later).

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Luis,

No, that's not from the book. Wildfire never brought anyone anything but trouble. It certainly didn't do anything for the Targaryens.

Maybe wildfire will be retconned as what gave the Targs the ability to force Westeros to obey after the dragons all died?

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Good episode, but Renly accepting a King in the North :bs:. They're really going out of there way to make Stannis look bad and erase everything resembling a negative trait from Renly.

What?

They took him from a strong, brave, charismatic, handsome, witty, gracious, intelligent and completely independent young Robert who loves to joust and hunt to a weak, ferret-like indecisive, insecure, smarmy and childish young sales rep who is being lead around by almost everyone and just happens to suddenly be super-gay, only in an insecure, smarmy way.

But finally he's gone, so no more need to bitch about the constant need to marginalize gay men as military figures. I mean, this is where Loras goes ape and kills several great knights, right??

Oh, no...that was changed. Brienne does that now.

Loras gets to threaten an unarmed accountant before being talked into running away.

Edited by James Arryn

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In tho books, Dany's talks about how her Khalasar are very prideful about the dragons, and I got the same feeling that they were kind of like little pets to everyone in the Khalasar(at first, not later).

Yep, that's right, they considered the dragons 'theirs'.

I wonder if we see more of the dragons' personalities when they are young in the show? In the books they're portrayed as cat like, but we don't get much on how intelligent they are, or how aggressive or friendly they are to humans. Later, well, we all know what happens.

Can't wait for the House of the Undying next week!

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Only read to page 6 of the thread...

I think the scene in the House of the Undying will be that Dany goes in, they cut to a different scene, (preferably Jon, blue rose and all that). Cut back to Quarth, Dany comes stumbling out, Pyat Pree goes mental, Jorah cuts him down. Later she recounts what she saw. The scene is too trippy for viewers to make sense of anyway, it would be like a David Lynch movie.

ETA:

Yeah, it was supposed to be a longship, like the Danes used (I get terribly upset when people call them Vikings). That was a much bigger ship, but it was visually stunning, which I think was the idea.

Oi! Norwegians and Swedes went raiding too, you know...

Edited by lacuna

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Why on earth did they take the wildfyre idea fron Tyrion to give it to Cersei? It was one of Tyrion's best ideas as Hand?

IIRC that was Cersei's idea originally - anyway Tywin gave her credit.

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I loved seeing Drogon, but weren't they calling him something different? And, I want to see the other two dragons, too, although I do understand it's very, very challenging to create each one.

I think they said "drakharis", which is supposed to be High Valyrian. It's the command Dany trains them to make them breathe fire, as I recall.

When Drogon's cage is put away, we also get a glimpse of one of the other dragons, but I am not sure which one.

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In the books Renly was OK with Robb calling himself "King in the North," as long as he still bent the knee and pledged his fealty to the Iron Throne once Renly won. This didn't really make sense to me (I've never heard of a historical situation where a King ruled over another King - Renly would have to be Emperor or something) but I guess they kept it the same in the show

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Lots of changes this episode only one I didn't like was mormonts comment to Jon, didn't see the point. I'm glad bran had jojen's dream, I'd rather jojen have it but since he's not here I'm glad it was still include. Superb episode.

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Regarding Meera and Jojen Reed...

I think they have to be there. It's possible (although unlikely) that they could leave Bran and Rickon's fate hanging at the end of the season for the TV audience. One thing I know for sure as that they need to have Cat think the boys are dead when she sends Jaime off with Brienne. But I could totally see them letting the viewers think that the boys were dead until next year. But, what is more likely is that they will emerge from the crypt at Winterfell in the very last scene of the season. The thing is though... Leuwin has to die! Keeping him alive would be too big of a change in my opinion. And if I remember correctly it's Leuwins idea to split the boys up...

Im thinking that they (Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha) will all leave Winterfell together. Later, as they travel (early next season) they will meet the Reeds along the way and then take Leuwin's advice to split up. It would be really cool if we could see the mute kid in the tree who later tells Manderly about the boys and their wolves.

The actress who plays Osha is good, but not good enough to drastically change the story for her. I hope D&D agree.

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What?

They took him from a strong, brave, charismatic, handsome, witty, gracious, intelligent and completely independent young Robert who loves to joust and hunt to a weak, ferret-like indecisive, insecure, smarmy and childish young sales rep who is being lead around by almost everyone and just happens to suddenly be super-gay, only in an insecure, smarmy way.

But finally he's gone, so no more need to bitch about the constant need to marginalize gay men as military figures. I mean, this is where Loras goes ape and kills several great knights, right??

Oh, no...that was changed. Brienne does that now.

Loras gets to threaten an unarmed accountant before being talked into running away.

They may have added some negative traits, but they took away all the ones that existed in the book. The carelessness, the apathy, choking off the food supply to King's Landing, his glee for killing Stannis and Joffrey even when he thought he was his nephew, the plan for a rash and unnecessary attack at dawn marching his men directly into the rising sun...they made have made him more of a pansy, but they sure as hell made him less of a dick.

I agree that the Loras reaction sucked, the whole assassination scene could have been so much better and the lack of rage on Loras's part was disappointing. That and the shaving scene from the first season made it appear that Loras mainly saw Renly as a means to power and put the idea of kingship in his head. In the books it was Renly calling the shots, and Loras genuinely worshiped the ground he walked on.

And speaking of gay men, I don't love the fact that Xaro is now straight- and wants to be king of Westeros?? If I recall correctly he just wanted a dragon, but it looks like they will probably leave out the details of how a Qartheen marriage works. I've never been one to want the show to directly reflect the books, I just hope there is a point to the new Xaro. For a character that looks like they will play a much larger role in the show than they did in the books, I wish they had found a better actor.

Edited by salt

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Mine guts ! That was one of an episode ! Gonna read what's been said before joining the conversations, here !

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I am always amazed when each show ends, that it seemed so short. Tonight, it was even more so. Wish they could make some of these episodes 2 hours.

They seem short because they generally are. This one was about 55 minutes, many of them have been closer to 52. Take out 4 or so minutes for episode recap and the intro and that's disappointingly short. With such a massive book to fit into 10 episodes one would hope they would all be 60 minutes long.

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Liked the episode. Looks like they kept most of it intact to the books save for a few. Bran and Osha taking care of the green dreams should be nice, as I never liked the frog people. One thing I continue to dislike is how open everyone is. They beat too many details over the audience's heads and use exposition instead of letting viewers figure things out themselves.

I understand why they let Maisie Williams say hear infamous line, "Anyone can be killed." But I don't get the part where she says it to Tywin's face. You just don't do that to a high lord who has laser beam eyes and can have your tongue cut out. I think they understood each other that they aren't on the same side. Foolish for her to open her mouth and have an opinion.

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I think they said "drakharis", which is supposed to be High Valyrian. It's the command Dany trains them to make them breathe fire, as I recall.

When Drogon's cage is put away, we also get a glimpse of one of the other dragons, but I am not sure which one.

"dracarys". it means "dragon fire" in high valyrian

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did anyone else notice the exclusion of the scene where Jon Snow and Ghost find the cache of dragonglass knives, arrowheads and also the HORN OF WINTER? if the horn becomes a key item in the future novels, how will the HBO writers recover from leaving out this scene?

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did anyone else notice the exclusion of the scene where Jon Snow and Ghost find the cache of dragonglass knives, arrowheads and also the HORN OF WINTER? if the horn becomes a key item in the future novels, how will the HBO writers recover from leaving out this scene?

They can have Sam find it, what's the big deal ?

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