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[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

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Late to the conversation…loved the episode, with one caveat:

I'm quite worried about Jaqen talking about the Red God. I'm not sure how they're going to handle Arya later in that case.

Jaqen talks about the "Red god" in the books too.

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Thank you so much for responding to that ridiculous ass post, I was getting so worried that it was going to go unchecked for pages.

Jon getting Longclaw is not some undeserved gift either....

Oh, and this same gifted young swordsman just happened to save his life on top of it.That's why it makes sense that Jeor gave Jon Longclaw

Gods, why can't people actually take their blinders off and think about something???

I think you may be undervaluing a Valyrian sword.

In the Blackfyre rebellion, the fact that Daemon had Blackfyre, one of the ancient Targaryen blades, was a HUGE point in his favor in many people's eyes...they literally saw him having the House sword (did the Targ's have more than 2? Does any other House have more than 1?) as him being the rightful king.

Tywin Lannister, one of the most powerful and the richest lords in Westeros, could not get his hands on a Valyrian sword. Small houses with nothing BUT a Valyrian weapon would not sell him one, no matter what he might have offered. One of his sons went on a crazy mission to find the ancient Lannister sword, Brightroar, and never returned.

Jon Snow gets one handed to him. This doesn't strike you as...odd? Easy?

I think Rockroi's post was spot on. Jon has many things handed to him and we cheer him for it. Take off the blinders, indeed.

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yes Stannis in the books after the 2nd shadowbaby is looking bad, although I don't think we are directly told that is the reason..

Overall the writers are doing pretty well including major scenes from the book in the TV series. It's got to be a tremendous challenge to write something for 10 hours of TV that has so many new characters and such a convoluted plot line. It's one of my complaints about the books, much as I loved reading them, that GRRM kills off so many main characters, and introduces so many new ones that frankly aren't that interesting.. it's hard to keep track of the "B" players and certainly hard to keep a TV watching audience's attention with so many new characters jumping in all the time.

That said, I think they could be spending a little more time explaining wth is going on. My wife, who has not read the books, is having trouble following the storyline and I think is about ready to give up on it. For example, she had no idea who Robb was attacking, and where. They could use a few simple visual devices, like a fade-frame of the map or something, so the viewer could get a sense of where the action was located, or even subtitles with who some of the characters are, though that might get annoying too.. like I said, it's a challenge.

I'm definitely not liking the Icelandic setting for North of the Wall, majestic as it is.. This is supposed to be heavily forested and not nearly as desolate as all the scenes we are seeing. It will be interesting to see how the future scenes of the attack upon the wall from "out of the forest" are handled.

I'm having a feeling the show is going to avoid the whole Beric Dondarrion, Un-Cat thing. It's just another crazy subplot that I think while cool to some readers (I personally never liked this subplot and thought it was never well explained), might lose the TV crowd.

It's hard to imagine them keeping up TV interest past the Red Wedding.. unless they set up some of these characters to have more redeeming qualities. TV audiences like to root for a hero.. there really aren't many of them left by the end of the books..

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I think you may be undervaluing a Valyrian sword.

In the Blackfyre rebellion, the fact that Daemon had Blackfyre, one of the ancient Targaryen blades, was a HUGE point in his favor in many people's eyes...they literally saw him having the House sword (did the Targ's have more than 2? Does any other House have more than 1?) as him being the rightful king.

Tywin Lannister, one of the most powerful and the richest lords in Westeros, could not get his hands on a Valyrian sword. Small houses with nothing BUT a Valyrian weapon would not sell him one, no matter what he might have offered. One of his sons went on a crazy mission to find the ancient Lannister sword, Brightroar, and never returned.

Jon Snow gets one handed to him. This doesn't strike you as...odd? Easy?

I think Rockroi's post was spot on. Jon has many things handed to him and we cheer him for it. Take off the blinders, indeed.

A fucking Sellsword in the Windblown named Kago has a Valyrian Steel Arakh(which is way more rare than a Valyrian Steel sword) , yeah they are so god like. The point is, you don't sell them. Ever. However, Valyrian Steel swords are given away all the time, when they are passed down from father to son. Jeor lost his son, so he gave it to his surraget son, who happened to save his life, who happeneds to be going North of the Wall to fight Wildlings and the Others, who happens to be the future of the Nights Watch.

I would love for you to quote my whole post, obviously you couldn't argue against all of my point, so you had to quote a quarter of it.

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I think you may be undervaluing a Valyrian sword.

In the Blackfyre rebellion, the fact that Daemon had Blackfyre, one of the ancient Targaryen blades, was a HUGE point in his favor in many people's eyes...they literally saw him having the House sword (did the Targ's have more than 2? Does any other House have more than 1?) as him being the rightful king.

Tywin Lannister, one of the most powerful and the richest lords in Westeros, could not get his hands on a Valyrian sword. Small houses with nothing BUT a Valyrian weapon would not sell him one, no matter what he might have offered. One of his sons went on a crazy mission to find the ancient Lannister sword, Brightroar, and never returned.

Jon Snow gets one handed to him. This doesn't strike you as...odd? Easy?

I think Rockroi's post was spot on. Jon has many things handed to him and we cheer him for it. Take off the blinders, indeed.

How does it undervalue a Valyrian sword wanting to keep where it's best used? Like I've said in another topic the Night's Watch has just discovered the Others are starting to move against them for the first time in thousands of years at the Watch's weakest moment, you don't send away your best weapon, you wish you had more.

And Tywin Lannister is an asshole with the heart of a merchant. His being an scumbag and trying to buy a Valyrian sword and Jon's actions are apples and oranges.

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I think you may be undervaluing a Valyrian sword.

In the Blackfyre rebellion, the fact that Daemon had Blackfyre, one of the ancient Targaryen blades, was a HUGE point in his favor in many people's eyes...they literally saw him having the House sword (did the Targ's have more than 2? Does any other House have more than 1?) as him being the rightful king.

Tywin Lannister, one of the most powerful and the richest lords in Westeros, could not get his hands on a Valyrian sword. Small houses with nothing BUT a Valyrian weapon would not sell him one, no matter what he might have offered. One of his sons went on a crazy mission to find the ancient Lannister sword, Brightroar, and never returned.

Jon Snow gets one handed to him. This doesn't strike you as...odd? Easy?

I think Rockroi's post was spot on. Jon has many things handed to him and we cheer him for it. Take off the blinders, indeed.

That's just my humble opinion but i think that it also had to do with Jorah's betrayal. Mormont is a rather old man who doesn't have another son or a brother (as far as i know) and it wouldn't be surprising if he wanted to see Jon as something not to far from a son, one who wouldn't shame him,and Jon has proven he could be courageous and honorable. Or at least as someone to leave his heritage to. That might explain the very generous gesture though I admit it's a bit far-fetched, especially given he hasn't known him for very long.

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That's just my humble opinion but i think that it also had to do with Jorah's betrayal. Mormont is a rather old man who doesn't have another son or a brother (as far as i know) and it wouldn't be surprising if he wanted to see Jon as something not to far from a son, one who wouldn't shame him,and Jon has proven he could be courageous and honorable. Or at least as someone to leave his heritage to. That might explain the very generous gesture though I admit it's a bit far-fetched, especially given he hasn't known him for very long.

He has daughters who fight and who are just as deserving of the sword.

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Gods, why can't people actually take their blinders off and think about something???

Your condescending tone is really not helping your argument, you know. All of your arguments have been made plenty of times before and have never convinced me and many other posters, and no, it's not because we are not thinking about the issue...

I have to admit, I have zero recollection of Quaithe from the books (which I've read twice). Is she important in any significant way?

No, she just appears from time to time to give Dany some vague warnings and prophesies so people who are so inclined can waste time arguing about them on the Internet, then disappears again. One of the most useless and boring characters in the series.

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He has daughters who fight and who are just as deserving of the sword.

It doesn't seem quite customary in Westeros to pass precious weapons to daughters. I know Mormont women are deseving warriors but I don't know what his opinion about it is. And he is a man of the Night's Watch so he's supposed to forget about his past bonds. Again ,only my opinion.

Edited by Fantôme

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Actually, Ghost714, your post was quite long and I didn't want to take up a lot of the page requoting something everyone had already read.

But by all means, continuing being belligerent.

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After giving Bran the greendreams and Theon coming fast I've made my peace not expecting the Reeds anymore. They've got a pretty big actress playing Osha and there's no way they're going to have her go off and disappear for who knows how many more books with Rickon unless she has to stop doing the show.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What I've been saying for weeks.

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After giving Bran the greendreams and Theon coming fast I've made my peace not expecting the Reeds anymore. They've got a pretty big actress playing Osha and there's no way they're going to have her go off and disappear for who knows how many more books with Rickon unless she has to stop doing the show.

It is possible to make Bran's story with Osha, it can have interesting dynamics... I dont think it will be such a major problem to cut out the Reeds...

The problem is for Rickon, but from Bran's vision, only Rodrik will die, Rickon will definitly leave with Luwin, I guess...

And since the writers said some characters will be delayed, I'm quite sure Ramsay and the Tully are for next season.

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Anyone think the two orphan boys Bran gives to the farmer/herder will be the boys that Theon and Reek kill and present as the bodies of Bran and Rickon?

Yep

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Don't know if it has been mentioned above, but one part I found absolutely awesome was when the Great Ranging were on top of the Fist of the First Men, and Sam was talking about all the various races that inhabit Westeros. When he gets to the First Men, he mentions that he wonders what the First Men looked like, and as he's pondering, the camera pans right to reveal Jon Snow.

Pretty cool stuff!

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The Guy Tywin sent home,

Was his first name similar to Jeyne Westerling's father in the books, begins with R ?

Given the rumours that Jeyne's last name has been changed to Lannister would this make sense to have her father hurt from his dismissal being a minor plot point around the romance

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As Bran says - if the Starks don't protect their bannermen, why should their bannermen protect them? The Starks need to defend the North from these attacks with the army down south. It doesn't work out because of Theon, of course, but letting Northern castles and towns fall to the ironborn to stay walled up in safety in Winterfell would have been disastrous as well.

I agree. I was very impressed with how very lordly Bran was in that respect.

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It is possible to make Bran's story with Osha, it can have interesting dynamics... I dont think it will be such a major problem to cut out the Reeds...

The problem is for Rickon, but from Bran's vision, only Rodrik will die, Rickon will definitly leave with Luwin, I guess...

And since the writers said some characters will be delayed, I'm quite sure Ramsay and the Tully are for next season.

Yep, and as much as I do like the Reeds it makes more sense for Osha to be taking Bran beyond the Wall in the first place. If you're Bran who do you want to be travelling with just in terms of survival, the crannogmen that have never left the Neck before now or the wildling who's originally from North of the Wall?

Without the green dreams what possible advantage is there of the Reeds over Osha. We've already lost the Tower of Joy scene so I'd not be expecting the Knight of the Laughing Tree either. Maybe they think these backstories would just be muddying the waters of so many plotlines to begin with.

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The Guy Tywin sent home,

Was his first name similar to Jeyne Westerling's father in the books, begins with R ?

Given the rumours that Jeyne's last name has been changed to Lannister would this make sense to have her father hurt from his dismissal being a minor plot point around the romance

It sounded like he said Reginald? Jeyne's father was Gawen Westerling. Though her brothers were Raynald and Rollam.

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The Guy Tywin sent home,

Was his first name similar to Jeyne Westerling's father in the books, begins with R ?

Given the rumours that Jeyne's last name has been changed to Lannister would this make sense to have her father hurt from his dismissal being a minor plot point around the romance

Interesting...

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