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[Book Spoilers] EP 205 Discussion

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I've always pictured Iron Islands ships as Viking long boats, not European style caravelles. They are supposed to be raiders, not travelers. Which is what made Euron different from the lot.

I think they just changed it, because a quick CGI shot of a ship in the distance is cheaper that having a real ship built, and the bigger ship made a more striking visual.

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There’s some suspicion, and even some evidence, that suggests that the crannogman can do that, too, and that that’s how it is that Greywater Watch moves.

Interesting. I never thought of that. A crannog, of course, is a little man-made island of sorts, so I always just assumed they poled it from place to place or something like that.

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I still stand firmly by my belief that Ramsay won't be cut. He would make far too good of an HBO evil villain for them to let that go. Viewers think Joffrey is bad and messed up in the head? Yeah. They can't cut Ramsay.

I agree. Ramsay will appear eventually. The only possible may around it (which I don't see as likely) would be to envelope him into his father and make Roose a composite of the two.

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I always found it very poignant that, even as he decries Ned and his "precious honor," he truly respects men of honor (like his father); and he sort of hates them a little too, if only because he failed to be like them. Leaving his father's sword behind when he fled says a lot about his character -- he knew he wasn't worthy of keeping it. I always found it an interesting correlation to Jon Snow doing the same when he was about to desert to join Robb in AGoT, because he "was not so lost to honor" as to take it with him.

thank you for articulating just what I was thinking!! In some characters the whole "self-loathing" thing can get obnoxious, but I feel like he's determined to work with what he's got. I think he is honorable, but he's just so mixed up about it, of which you gave perfect examples. He thinks selling the rogue Targaryen traitor out to the crown is the honorable thing to do until he falls in love with her and then it is no longer the honorable thing. He obviously thought selling the people to the slavers was what they deserved (i've forgotten exactly what they did...rape...murder...the usual) and therefore honorable.

and as we've all seen, a life of honor is usually a fairly short one.

I think Jorah is a somewhat underestimated character. He's the only thing that gets me through Dany's chapters. Especially after she sent him off and I just kept hoping for more mention of him!

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On the topic of Ramsay, do you think we will see him at all this season? Or will he appear in S3?

Season 3, I think -- yeah. Depends on how they portray Theon/Reek. They might just show him in a dungeon next season, etc.

Edited by J.S. Crews

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thank you for articulating just what I was thinking!! In some characters the whole "self-loathing" thing can get obnoxious, but I feel like he's determined to work with what he's got. I think he is honorable, but he's just so mixed up about it, of which you gave perfect examples. He thinks selling the rogue Targaryen traitor out to the crown is the honorable thing to do until he falls in love with her and then it is no longer the honorable thing. He obviously thought selling the people to the slavers was what they deserved (i've forgotten exactly what they did...rape...murder...the usual) and therefore honorable.

and as we've all seen, a life of honor is usually a fairly short one.

I think Jorah is a somewhat underestimated character. He's the only thing that gets me through Dany's chapters. Especially after she sent him off and I just kept hoping for more mention of him!

The slaves he sold were just poachers, but he did that for love, which turned-out to be B.S. anyway. That's one of the reasons he hates himself, IMO. He gave his own honor away for absolutely nothing.

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Yes, he seems very....sympathetic in the show. Book Tywin seems to be a lot more brutal. It's hard to be too upset since they're acting is great and they really play the characters flawlessly, but it does seem a little old. I never thought of your last sentence....that would be too weird.

Tywin could not have served as Hand of the King for twenty years if he were brutal. We are seeing wartime Tywin from the eyes of others.

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How Bran is going beyond the wall by himself (and hordor?). It was a bit strange that they left the reeds out.. even though I hate Jojen, and I think things will run out better without him there is still the problem that Osha will go with rickon and bran would go with the reeds.. so what now?

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The slaves he sold were just poachers, but he did that for love, which turned-out to be B.S. anyway. That's one of the reasons he hates himself, IMO. He gave his own honor away for absolutely nothing.

oh that's right. I did a re-read and I still forget details like this. But I still agree with your assessment. I still could care less what happens to Dany but i'm interested to see how Jorah's story arc plays out, especially after Jeor forgave him via Sam after the massacre at Craster's.

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How Bran is going beyond the wall by himself (and hordor?). It was a bit strange that they left the reeds out.. even though I hate Jojen, and I think things will run out better without him there is still the problem that Osha will go with rickon and bran would go with the reeds.. so what now?

quite a few people have speculated that Maester Luwin will stay alive and go with Bran and Osha will still go with Rickon. I guess I can see with that perspective how the Reeds become superfluous but I always found them fascinating! especially with the whole Knight of the Laughing Tree/Howland Reed/ R+L theories. I also have trouble seeing Maester Luwin making the trek through the forests and past the wall. He's pretty frail. Unless they keep Rodrick Cassel alive? although I feel that keeping either one of them alive would take some of the sting out of the fall of Winterfell, but that just may be a personal opinion.

I was surprised in reading this and other threads that people don't like the Reed twins. I thought Jojen could get irritating but I think that is how Bran feels about him. I really liked Meera. She is unique and an interesting feminine perspective that is different from Catelyn, Brienne, or Cersei.

But the show writers have something I dont: direct access to GRRM's twisted mind. I guess we will just have to see how replacing them (if it happens that way) plays out later on

Edited by Harimad

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Good catch!

No one's gonna bite on my comment about Sam wondering what the First Men looked like and the camera panning to reveal Jon Snow, eh?

I thought that it paralleled, at least superficially, Melisandre's pleading to be shown Azor Ahai in the flames and only being shown an image of "that bastard boy."

:)

does she say that in the book?? blast my re-read, I still miss so much. I've been suspecting the whole Jon/AA thing obviously but I must have missed the reference!

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does she say that in the book?? blast my re-read, I still miss so much. I've been suspecting the whole Jon/AA thing obviously but I must have missed the reference!

dont have ADWD on hand but it goes something like this..

"I keep asking R'holler to show me a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and he shows me only Snow"

Edited by Francys Targaryen

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Regarding the doubts about the appearance of Ramsay, hasn´t he already been cast? I remember seeing a photo somewhere, and boy did he look unpleasant.

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dont have ADWD on hand but it goes something like this..

"I keep asking R'holler to show me a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and he shows me only Snow"

Yeah, that's pretty close.

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Regarding the doubts about the appearance of Ramsay, hasn´t he already been cast? I remember seeing a photo somewhere, and boy did he look unpleasant.

He hasn't been cast.

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How Bran is going beyond the wall by himself (and hordor?). It was a bit strange that they left the reeds out.. even though I hate Jojen, and I think things will run out better without him there is still the problem that Osha will go with rickon and bran would go with the reeds.. so what now?

Osha will be going with Bran, I would bet. Luwin may survive to take Rickon.

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True enough anybody can help Bran till the wall, beyond that Coldhands can carry Bran himself if need to.

I guess it would be better if Osha was gone with Bran and Maester with rickon, as Osha has information beyond the wall and skills to survive there, the Maester will be usefull in theaching Rickon, and carying for him in the Kingdom... even though in the books Osha realy gone with Rickon, she soon disapeared and now he is with Davos.. so I think it's possible to change who goes with Bran.

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This was a pretty good episode. My main issue is that the some of the scenes are clunky and season 2 has been pretty bad in that aspect. Season 1 really had a good flow but season 2 has been clunky I.E Renly being assassinated. Just wasn't as well done as it could have been IMO. That said there were a few things I loved.

The scenes on at The Fist was great. I loved seeing Ghost in the background.

Rickon was hilarous.

All the Arya scenes are brilliant. I'm a little worried about what they'll replace the scene where Arya kills the Tickler with. I mean that's a very poignant scene for Arya and I'm worried baout what they'll do. That said Maisie brings so much intensity to the role that I couldn't imagine anyone else. The scene between her and Tywin was awesome. I also don't agree with people who think that Tywin would kill Arya just for that...Tywin was never really needlessly brutal...he was very pragmatic and he always had others do his dirty work. He doesn't just mindlessly off people all the time.

Jaquen was awesome and the Arya/Gendry scene was great. Again Maisie is fucking incredible.

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This was a pretty good episode. My main issue is that the some of the scenes are clunky and season 2 has been pretty bad in that aspect. Season 1 really had a good flow but season 2 has been clunky I.E Renly being assassinated. Just wasn't as well done as it could have been IMO. That said there were a few things I loved.

This cuts to the heart of the problem. This season just feels so much less professional than the last one. Is it the lack of Sean Bean? Is it the sudden shift of focus away from the Stark family? In the books, it happens almost without notice, but it's especially prominent in the series. Is it the weird, disjointed writing? Is it the "porn parody" feel? Margaery saying she would "bend over and pretend to be Loras" was something that seemed especially jarring. Is it the clear and blatant favoritism they show certain characters? Is it how they needlessly change minor details for no fucking reason just to be "different"? This show isn't an adaptation of GRRM's novels. It's not, and it will need to stop pretending it is once this season is done. Cutting certain characters? Makes plenty of sense. Aging them up? Sure. Shortening some of their scenes? Yep. Completely changing the fundamentals of the character? Don't get it. Don't get it at all.

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