[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

[Winterfell is Burning]

Opening with the fall of Winterfell caught me by surprise. I did like Alfie Allen's petulant "I took it" as if he has to prove it even to Bran.

Yeah, me too.

I'm happy they didn't go much in depth about how exactly Winterfell was taken, since that was a part I never found very convincing in the books.

thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

He was simply thinking "Do I know this girl from somewhere?". No problem for me here.

My problem, however, is that he is appearing too much; in fact, only Tyrion and Arya have appeared this much. LF worked best when he stayed out of sight, without you knowing where he is or what the hell he was doing.

[Pliny]

To me the big wuestion is Dagmer=Ramsey? How else does Bolton know everything that is going on in Winterfell. Luwin sent his message before Rodrik was killed.

Whoa. If this is true... mind=blown.

I noticed that Theon is presented with two paths in the same frame- Dagmer's advice vs. Maester Luwen's advice. Alfie Allen's acting this week (this season!) has been incredible. Ser Rodrick's last words were badass.

Some questions:

- I see a few people think Littlefinger recognized Arya. My husband (only about 1/3 through GoT) and I (read them all) both got the impression that it was TYWIN who suspected something (not that she's Arya Stark, but just that he knows she's more than she says). I love the whole Arya/Tywin thing, but perhaps it's because I already loved Tywin, and now they're just making him more likable. When I saw Arya's smile when he complimented her, I anticipated a ragefest over it amongst purists. Oh well. Some of us are enjoying it. (Loved Jaqen's expression when she insists he kill Lorch NOW!)

-San/San fans are feasting on his rescue scene, and it was good. But. It seems to me that, in this season, that the writers are making an effort to lay the foundation for Sansa/Tyrion. Sorry San/San fans?

[AnikaUnderfoot]

Just "implied sex" this week. Obviously Osha and Theon weren't jus lying naked in bed together. Loved Theon's line when he first sees her naked! :lol:

You are completely right.

That whole scene somehow manage to slip my mind when I was talking about everything else I liked. How about we change that to "No Ros!".

My apologies.

Edited May 7, 2012 by AnikaUnderfoot

[Bastard of Boston]

thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

Well, Arya wasn't helping her cause by trying so hard to remain out of his sight...and the fact that she spilled wine all over him contributed to grabbing his attention.

[Lady Olenna]

I've been holding my criticism on the deviations from the books just to see where the show is going. I have to say that I actually enjoy the changes and understand why they chose to do them. I think they've chosen wisely with their deviations. 

The KL scene between Tyrion & Cersei was absolutely epic. Viewers probably don't understand the significance of Cersei telling Tyrion she hopes he loves someone, etc., and the stare down he gives her (readers know that he did truly love someone only to have her taken away). If looks could kill... 

I was floored by naked Osha... But the change worked to get the kids to the crypts. Got to see Rickon, shaggy dog and summer!

I'm not sure if I heard it correctly but it sounded like Ygritte said that Jon's brothers had deserted him (wonderful foreshadowing of his own desertion). The snuggling scene was hilarious. 

I like that Shae actually has a decent scene but I'm not sure how they are going to play that out later. 

I know that people don't like Jaquen's dart but come on the delivery was great! 

And I for one am glad to see more of Tywin. He's just awesome. Can't wait to see some Jaime scenes coming up. 

Although I was caught off guard by the dragons - I'm glad they did it because I always wondered why it never happened in the books. 

Great episode. 

[RoamingRonin]

Ser Rodrik's beheading was a interesting change. It reminded me of Ned's execution with Bran, Rickon and the rest watching helpless. Theon's crossed the line now. There's no turning back for him. And now Dany has to back up all of her big talk without her dragons. Her plot needed a bit of action based drama. But where was Ser Jorah and Doreah? Did the thieves break in or was Dany betrayed?

[Ser Joe of House Targaryen]

Are we sure that Osha and the Stark kids are going to be hiding in the crypts? With the way things are going this season, I wouldn't be surprised if they just leave Winterfell all together and start out towards the Wall.

[turdle]

Well, Arya wasn't helping her cause by trying so hard to remain out of his sight...and the fact that she spilled wine all over him contributed to grabbing his attention.

sure, but even before then, he spent almost the entire scene trying to see her face. if i were tywin, i would have found it very distracting that petyr wasn't paying attention to what i was saying.

[Pliny]

The "Spice" King, who reminds me of Baron Harkonnen, keeps me wandering into Dune/ASoIaF crossover territory :laugh:

I get the feeling that Doreah is selling out her Khaleesi, too. Would make more sense of why she's still around. The quick preview of next episode made it seem like Dany was suspicious of Jorah. Hope they're not moving the split up.

Ha- he reminded me of Dune as well!

I also got the impression that Dany was angry with Jorah, and wondered if it might be the betrayal, but it can't be so soon, right? Maybe she's just mad at him in more of a "WHERE WERE YOU?!" way.

Jon and Ygritte: *sigh* I just hated almost all of their time together in the books. And now he looks even worse.

Are we sure that Osha and the Stark kids are going to be hiding in the crypts? With the way things are going this season, I wouldn't be surprised if they just leave Winterfell all together and start out towards the Wall.

That's what I was thinking as well.

[jurble]

You can't possibly still think Talisa is Talisa from Volantis after the scene tonight. She's clearly hiding her identity. Beyond that, Volantis isn't exactly an integral aspect of the Ice and Fire series. I don't think altering the color palette of its people is all that detrimental to anything. It's one thing to make Dany raven-haired, it's pretty inconsequential to make a Volantene one.

Whether she is Volantene isn't the issue, the fact that Rob didn't go "Bullshit!" when she stated it, based on entirely on her appearance, indicates that Valyrian looks in the TV-show are probably going to be restricted entirely to Targaryens, which I hate, since it makes Targaryens magical or special, when they just happen to be a Valyrian family that managed to keep their dragons alive.

[AnikaUnderfoot]

Also, I did like Arya demanding her next kill NOW. The look on Jaqen's face was like "is this girl serious?!". I loved their interactions.

[turdle]

Ser Rodrik's beheading was a interesting change. It reminded me of Ned's execution with Bran, Rickon and the rest watching helpless. Theon's crossed the line now. There's no turning back for him. And now Dany has to back up all of her big talk without her dragons. Her plot needed a bit of action based drama. But where was Ser Jorah and Doreah? Did the thieves break in or was Dany betrayed?

i felt like sir rodriks beheading was a bit of a nod to what's-his-face karstark being beheaded by rob in aSoS where it takes him so many whacks to get the thing off. especially since i doubt they'll ever address that story thread.

[Darth Pipes]

Sophomoric comment of the day:

Jeyne is so freaking hot. I would let her amputate my foot for a date.

ETA: "My bastard at the Dreadfort."

Fuck. Yes.

Jeyne is beautiful. Ygritte is lovely. And Tonks was naked. :laugh:

Great episode, I really enjoyed it. The opening Winterfell scene was intense and well-done. I liked Ser Rodrik's death here, it combined several elements from the book. Poor Bran, his screaming was heartbreaking. The scene that almost got to me though was Ser Rodrik telling him that he was going to see his father.

As a book reader, I found the riot scene (especially Sansa's near rape) to be pretty intense, as was Arya nearly being discovered during the meeting with Littlefinger. Arya and Tywin remains gold and I'm glad they found a reason why Arya has to use her second kill. I think she was going to take Tywin out, despite "bonding" with him.

Rose Leslie is fantastic as Ygritte.

The Bastard of Bolton lives!

[A Time for Wolves]

Jon and Ygritte: *sigh* I just hated almost all of their time together in the books. And now he looks even worse.

I didn't like them in the books, but something about TV-Ygritte is endearing. Maybe I'll start to dislike her healthily after the 10th "You know nothing, Jon Snow," but I right now I like this Ygritte a lot. Right now she's spirited without being obnoxious, although maybe the obnoxious part will come out soon.

I love that the TV show isn't shying away from portraying Dany as she really is - her true nature is camouflaged pretty well until ASOS. Pretty shocked at seeing her khalasar dead and the dragons stolen, but I like this and I wish something like that had happened in the books, because it in hindsight it seems really odd that nobody tried it.

I'm still lukewarm on Talisa - although her being a noblewoman makes this whole thing slightly more plausible. I loved the scenes between Robb and Catelyn so much, they're such a great pair on screen.

The taking of Winterfell broke my heart, on the other hand, just as I knew it would. And when the Bolton betrayal was foreshadowed...another terrible moment.

Edited May 7, 2012 by A Time for Wolves

[Howling Mad]

Where have all the horses gone? I understand budget cuts but really no horses?

[zippypoodle]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. The Winterfell scenes were great. Also very happy to hear that Ramsey hasn't entirely been cut.

I'm just waiting on the fan rage for the changes, particularly Dany's dragons being stolen. I can't wait to read the bitching for a whole week.

I was thinking the same thing. The analysis from this site has this gem:

The stolen dragons: Completely new, the consequences of which are presently rather unfathomable in terms of the show, but which does strike a blow at the fidelity of the series with the novels. Qarth has now radically departed from the narrative in the novel.

LOL

[CrypticWeirwood]

Where have all the horses gone? I understand budget cuts but really no horses?

The horse-budget is always a problem. Remember Monty Python and the Holy Grail’s coconuts. And how last season they just ran out of horsey money, so Robert had to go boar hunting on foot with like nobody with him. On the other hand, Peter Jackson seemed to have horseys coming out of his rear.

[zippypoodle]

I definitely agree with this. I can't say I dislike this season because it has been amazing at times but I feel that they are just diverging from the books way too far this season compared to last season. I hope they pull it back a little closer as we get further in the season but I really doubt it will!

Seriously, there have been very few changes of any importance at all. Yes, I will admit the dragon-theft is going a bit far afield, but even that doesn't stray all that far from the path and will likely give Dany even more reason to torch the HOTU. So I'm content to wait and see where that goes.

But for everything else, hardly any changes at all. I'm absolutely throwing out any concerns like subbing Bronn for Bywater or complaints about minor character A dying instead of minor character B. They're not even worth considering.

For the other storylines tonight:

1. The taking of Winterfell was almost exactly from the books. And Osha escapes with Bran and Rickon, just like from the books. Rodrik instead of the hound master? Irrelevant. Osha doing Theon instead of some other minor character? Irrelevant.

2. Jon captures Ygritte and lets her go. Pretty much exactly the same and it will still lead to Jon killing Qhorin to "prove" he "betrayed" the Night's Watch.

3. The Harrenhall scenes are pretty much true to the spirit of the book and don't go anywhere it can be claimed to be such a big departure that the storyline from the books cannot be followed.

4. The King's Landing scenes, especially the riot, were exactly from the books with changes that could only annoy the nitpickiest of book purists (Sansa was rescued from her horse not from three rapists! GRR!!!)

[zippypoodle]

Disappointed not seeing Jojen and Meera Reed.

Is disappointed a synonym for irrelevant?

[House Snow]

I don't understand the complaints about Dany. GRRM made her seem WAY WAY more petulent, nieve, and incompetant in the book(s). In some ways I think the show is showing it better than George was where it seemed so heavy handed "But I am just a young girl." That Merchant scene was a nice merge of the litany of Dany is Nieve scenes.

Also put me in the XXD is somehow involved with the kidnapping scene. His reaction was very much delayed, plus he was just talking about his willingness to do anything to get what he wants. In retrospect the scene is set up well b/c you wonder if it was Warlocks, XXD, Jorah, or Doreah who set it up