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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion


Ran
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Don't understand why people get angry by the deviations the show takes from the books.. Get over it, the show isnt going to be exactly like the book. If it upsets you that much stop watching the show, read the book again, and shut up.

Ok, good episode.

Dany: Wonder what's going to happen with the stolen dragons. I'm assuming the tower was the house of the undying and the warlocks are somehow mixed up in the theft foreshadowing their inevitable death. *Fingers crossed for Rhaegar vision*

Arya: Did a good job on giving the second death justice, otherwise there would have been little or no reason for J'aqen not to kill tywin or joffrey or something.

KL: Overall good job on those scenes. Tyrion slapping joffrey was sick!

Jon: These are the only scenes i didn't like that much. Can't think of a specific reason why but I didnt like them.

Robb: Still a little skeptical on how the are going to portray the Westerling affair but I am intrigued to see how exactly it goes down.

Once Roose mentioned Ramsay I was basically jumping up and down... Sooo pumped they didn't cut the bastard.

and finally

Theon: Awesome! Effing Awesome! Beheading was great. Liked Ser Rodrik saying "He who gives the sentence should swing the sword."

*Chop Chop Chop.... Kick* lol.

so thats my take on the episode. If something I said bothers you.......... f*** off.

Edited by Francys Targaryen
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Another fantastic episode.

Loved the riot scene in Kings Landing.That merchant got disarmed! Seeing Joffrey get hit with the cow patty was a nice visual. The hound continues to be awesome, he's such a great character. If not for the Mountain, I see Sandor as someone similar to Dunk.

We are missing one element that is bothering me, when does the dragonglass cache get found? I thought for sure that it was going to happen yesterday when Ghost was keeping his distance.

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As for Tywin -- very similar views here. It's not that I dislike the Tywin scenes, but I do call into question whether it REALLY is Tywin Lannister showing respect and interest to a servant. This is the guy who had a full barracks of men rape a woman his son married because she was simply not royalty, in order to embed a sense of discrimination in his son. Tywin's message - there are rulers, and there are ruled, and if you are a ruler, then any woman not of royalty is a whore (after your riches), and this is to make sure you NEVER make the mistake of bridging that divide. So... Yes, there is grey in ASoIaF, but different shades of grey: Tywin WAS a very prejudiced man, and that makes perfect sense given the inevitably hierarchical medieval Machiavellian setting he lived in, and I do think people should appreciate that, or at the very least be exposed to it. That system of oligarchical conquest persisted for a while... it didn't change much until the rapid advances in the economy and in weapon technology which created less incentive and a sort of deterrent to non-stop conquest (no longer needed to plunder others to have enough natural resources, and the risk was higher), and also decentralized protection; protection which peasants formerly heavily relied on the ruling class to provide.

There are these notions we often have of "uncivilized", "racist", "classist", or "sexist" just being an unfortunate *happenstance* of the past, rather than realizing their existence and early development were (pretty much) inevitable and "logical" outcomes given historical context. I feel like the book/author strongly embodies this sentiment, which I think ultimately represents appreciating "grey" in all the characters--NOT this "everybody has a good heart" rubbish that seems to be a common TV series pitch these days.

So... yeah I'd like to see Ygritte and Tywin a little LESS endearing, the way they were in the books. :P

Doubt many will read this, but feel free to PM me if you disagree!

You're missing the point that they are trying to depict Tywin as someone who values intelligence above other things. He's in harrenhal (an awful place) surrounded by ignorants lords (or wathever) and this girl is the only viable interlocutor he can find. I don't saying it in a nostalgic/romantic way. It's merely practical. an educated man who needs good conversation.

They did a very subtle and good job depicting how important is being intelligent to him that he tells how he sits with Jaime 4 hours a day to make him read: a nice contrast between his love for Jaime, the apparently perfect son who can't learn, who can't read and his hate for brilliant Tyrion, who has the intelligence that he admires. This contrast is really interesting.

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You're missing the point that they are trying to depict Tywin as someone who values intelligence above other things.

And why wouldn't he? Wits and smarts are what led to the rise of House Lannister.

Every Lannister should value this above all else.

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Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

I'm not quite sure where your confusion lies.

Why were they killing her in the first place? Two stated reasons:

1- Because they don't have enough food to feed her if they let her live.

2- Because if they let her go, she would run and alert Mance Rayder and his people of their presence and bring some Wildings back with her to kill em.

Why was he chasing her after he failed to kill her? Please see point 2.

Edited by Sun
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I said last week the Ghost of Harranhall was the best one this season, well that's changed. Ygritte was cast perfectly, Kissed by Fire indeed.

The attack on the precession was amazing, captured the volatile nature of the city completely. Tyrion's frustrations boiling over and giving us another Joff Slap. And the Hound protecting Sansa it was just great.

The Sack of Winterfell im sure shocked the non-reader audience. Turn Cloak sure was not ready for what he would face. Also glad to see Ramsey will be on his way to make his Reek :).

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Did anyone else hear Talisa say her last name was Maegi (or sounded something very much like that)? What do you think this means for Robb breaking his vows/Red Wedding storyline and the conjecture surrounding that?

Jeyne Westerling's grandmother in the books was Maggy the Frog. She was a Maegi. I thought the family name Talysa used in the show (sounds like Maegi) was a nice tie-in to the character's ancestry in the books.

I took the name as a little clue that Robb's arc will continue exactly as it was in the books, but expanded. Changes present & future in Talisa should have little effect on the overall outcome his arc, I would think. It's what they do later, with regards to the Westerling family and Sybell Spicer in AFFC, that I'm excited to see.

ETA:

Also it could be a hint that Talisa is really Jeyne Westerling incognito, after all. That she used Maegi as her family name because that's closest to the truth. It is a Volantine pronunciation of her grandmother's name, Maggy. So perhaps sometime in the next few episodes we'll discover that Talisa Maegi's real name is Jeyne Westerling.

Edited by Sun
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What I liked:

- The Riot: Not as intense as I imagined it but still impressively close

- The Hound saving the day

- Roose dropping Ramsay's name

- Tywin scenes

- Lolly cameo

- JQ one-shotting some poor schmuck

What I didn't like:

- Robb+Talisa - part 2 - The King and the Amputator Princess

- Cate giving Robb a 'you go tiger' look. I literally CRINGED when she did that

- Dany's acting this week: I don't know, I usually like her but when she gave another Fire * Blood speech, her voice was way too shaky.

All in all, nice episode. Possibly my second favorite this season

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In order to steer Theon towards taking Winterfell. Watch their conversation from last weeks episode again. It's Dagmer who nudges him into that direction.

1. What is Ramsay doing on the Isles? Why would he go there?

2. Roose says his bastard is at the Dreadfort.

I'm not buying Dagmer=Ramsay, yet.

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My only disappointment in this otherwise amazing episode was the constant logic holes regarding the direwolves.

Where is Ghost when Jon chases Ygritte or when they attack the wildling camp?

Where are Summer and Shaggydog when Theon attacks? Why did the show not stress how difficult it was keeping the wolves contained, or how the Ironborn accomplished this?

They portray the direwolves as the Starks' protectors, but other than Bran's attempted assassination last season or quick shots of Greywind by Robb's side, they've been nothing but domesticated pets. I would've liked even a simple scene of Summer sitting by Bran's bed when Theon first arrives, growling at him until Bran mollifies his pet.

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Jeyne Westerling's grandmother in the books was Maggy the Frog. She was a Maegi. I thought the family name Talysa used in the show (sounds like Maegi) was a nice tie-in to the character's ancestry in the books.

I took the name as a little clue that Robb's arc will continue exactly as it was in the books, but expanded. Changes present & future in Talisa should have little effect on the overall outcome his arc, I would think. It's what they do later, with regards to the Westerling family and Sybell Spicer in AFFC, that I'm excited to see.

I remember she was Maggy the Frog (Cersei's prophecy, too?), but I will be insterested to see if they take out Jeyne/Talisa's mother's role in the apparent scheme, and place it soley on Jeyne/Talisa. I wonder if the viewers will be clued in right away to the suspected plotting unlike in the books where it was only aluded to until much later. Also, would love to see a scene with Grey Wind and Jeyne/Talisa if this is the case.

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how would Ramsay get to the iron islands and pose as an ironman?

Gosh, that’s easy: teleportation. We’ve already seen it happening, a lot. Watch how Cat and Littlefinger flit about in no time at all. No reason for Ramsey not to use teleportation, what with all the very best people doing it and him such an up-and-coming social-climber.

As for disguises, that too is easy. Just look at how the decidedly olive-complected Talissa claims to be a Volantene, who all looked like true-blooded Valyrians with that tell-tale Targaryen look. With disguises of that calibre, surely Ramsey would have no trouble posing as someone twice his age with a disfiguring jaw scar that reknit the bones.

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