[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

[Rockroi]

Um... because he never set her free, he just chose not to kill her. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this; he didn't make the choice he did in the novels of letting her go. He couldn't bring himself to kill her, but wasn't about to let her escape, either

Does that concept really need an essay-length post asking why?

Well, considering your answer is pretty bad, yes I would say it does. Jon taking Ygritte prisoner makes literally no sense because Halfhand said, like 2 minutes before, that they were not taking her captive and that Jon would execute her. So, what? Jon thinks Halfhand (a man who gave him the “This-job-sucks-and-we’re-all-hard-men-so-you-better-learn-fast” talk ) is going to drag this woman to and fro while they destroy other encampments? Is that what he is thinking? That’s amazingly stupid.

First off, he's chasing her because he didn't let her go yet. He couldn't kill her, she ran, he chased her. At this point, I don't think he really knows what to do with her.

Following a character who does not know what he is doing after he just did something really meaningful is not interesting at all. I am watching all this energy being expended on activities that have no rhyme nor reason. BTW- you could be 100% correct- Jon probably has no idea what he is doing or why he is doing it. I can grasp that. My problem is how much time it wastes on material we do not need. I think having this side-show is taking away time from other story elements, most notably, Jon Snow’s. We don't need this chase. And how do I know this? Because the book operated just fine without it.

I believe that he'll find the Halfhands encampment, but before he rejoins him, he'll "surprisingly" let Ygritte go free.

If that is the case (and I can see that happening) then it will confirm my suspicion that this is just a gigantic waste of time and to have Kit have something to do while they shuffled him off to Iceland. If he just chased her so he can release her later, I’m sorry, that’s a waste of time.

If my options were to either spend the night spooning with Ygritte or spooning with Qhorin Halfhand, I´d run after her as well!

Okay. Fair point.

1- Because they don't have enough food to feed her if they let her live.

2- Because if they let her go, she would run and alert Mance Rayder and his people of their presence and bring some Wildings back with her to kill em.

Why was he chasing her after he failed to kill her? Please see point 2.

In no way shape or form does this answer the question. You simply stated a reason Jon should have killed her. Well, we all know Jon’s not going to kill her; that ship has sailed. So, what? He’s going to … what? Drag her back to Qhiron? Okay, but Halfhand will kill her! So… what? Seriously, this chase was a mess; a convoluted trip of unnecessary traipsing to establish that Jon Snow is confused. Well, I would have gotten to that exact same place had Jon decided NOT to kill her and then let her go. That makes some sense. Here? Here Jon takes actions and then contradicts them (won’t kill her but won’t let her go either). Its not working.

If you are all correct that Jon had not decided to let her go, but had decided to kill her then it confirms my greatest fear: He’s chasing her because they have nothing else for him to do.

[Pliskin]

On the other hand, for the TV show, this use of Talisa/Jeyne, if it is where they are going, is interesting.

I think she's just got caught in the middle of battles and used a fake identity to hide the fact that she's a daughter of a sworn bannerman of Tywin, so that Robb could not take her as a hostage.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Pliskin

[flinky]

did anyone else take tha color of paper that the Westerling/Volantis girl has and the one Tywin has as a hint as to why the red wedding happens? there are pictures of what the letter says on reddit that make it seem as they are setting it up as she is the one, or Bolton for that matter, giving away their positions and movements.

[Crown]

Alfie Allen, halle-fucking-luja. He was great! Isaac and Luwin (forgot the actor's name) were wonderful aswell. The Winterfell scene was better than expected, and the look on Theon's face after Rodriks decapitation was worth gold.

'Gods help you, Theon Greyjoy. Now you are truly lost.'

The Riot was intense, especially Sophie Turner during the 'rape'. Fantastic.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Crown

[towerofjoy]

I do really miss the general absence of animals - horses, dire wolves, dragons. I get all the reasons why but still a gap.

That said, book Ghost was frequently separated from Jon and did his own thing. And book Summer and Shaggy were also separated from Bran and Rickon for most of COK. So it's not really a big departure.

But Greywind was constantly with Robb - and this IS significant later. Also will be interesting if Greywind takes a dislike to Talisa if she really is a spy/in on the betrayal later. And if Cat notices and that's a source of tension between her an Robb.

Even with the changes, I think the show will basically end up in the same place as the books at the end of the season.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Anybody else think the actor playing Jaqen looks like Brad Pitt? (SIAP)

IGU! WITFWI “SIAP”?

[chris_warrior]

No need to waste budget dollars on Irri, who plays no role in the book other than waiting on Dany, when you can use that on Edmure or Jojen or Meera or Ramsay.

unless it becomes unimportant that Dany uses her as a bedmate. far be it for HBO to ignore a chance to show a sexy side of a character?

or was it Doreah?

in either event, it's a tiny scene that shows a hugely frustrated side of Dany;'s character that i think leads her to do some rather unwise stuff in later books (be so hurt by Jorah's actions, crawl into bed with a mercenary, etc).

[chris_warrior]

So if Dany's handmaidens are all dead then does that mean we won't have any girl on girl action on the ship to Slaver's Bay? :frown5:

that was my thought, and woe betide HBO if they miss a chance to show boobies. *wry look* and yet _i_ would miss that scene, short as it should be, because it really gives us a glimpse into how frustrated and alone Dany truly is, and explains a bit why she makes some fairly unwise personal space choices later on, especially feeling so betrayed by Jorah (and sending him away) and screwing a mercenary Captain.

[Frumpus]

The only thing that disappointed me about this episode is that Amory Lorch won't be fed to bears. Are the brave companions even going to be introduced? I wonder what will happen to Rorge and Biter later on, or if Jaime gets to keep his hand.

[Sun]

Which then brings you to point 1 - still not enough food to surive. So back to why did he chase her - he all ready made the decision to not kill her when he intentionally missed the swing and he knows he can't keep them both alive. So he made the choice to let her live - to what end? To bring her to Quorin - well, we know what he will do. Dead Ygritte.

Bring her to Mance? Nope, can't do that because then not only have you let her live to get the info to the WIldlings but you've also given yourself and your nice sword up. Jon dead.

Bring her to the Wall? Not enough food. both dead.

So how does letting her live, then chasing her down then just falling asleep next to her make sense? It doesn't

That's the whole point of the scene. He doesn't know what to do. He's struggling to make a decision that either way will cost him and others dearly. He couldn't kill her in that moment, but he's not yet ready to let her go and put the lives of all his brother crows in danger. Unlike the book, we don't see inside Jon's head in the show, so instead they have to show us his thought process, show us his doubts, show us his moral struggles, before they show us Jon arriving at a decision.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Sun

[bloodymime]

I agree, is she is supposed to be this bratty or it's the way the actress emilia is depicting her..

When she starts going off on fire and blood her facial expressions really remind me of Viserys from the first season. Good casting with those two.

[Reposado]

Robb's character butchered? check

jon snow's character butchered? check

but umm we got another scene of tywin being oblivious. sooooo, let's just continue making plot decisions based on casting

[TheRiderThatMounts]

Well... after this last episode, I guess next week we'll see lord Tywin burn down Harrenhall and everyone in it.

I love the actors. Their performances are amazing.

But I feel the producers are destroying characters, cutting away at their essence.

I can get past the fact that BLACK Lorren is blonde. But why do they have to mess with lord Tywin?

He's a masterpiece of a character. George R. R. Martin constructed him perfectly, a hard, family man, always wanting to win, not wanting to make any compromises. From the books I only know lord Tywin to lose his cool once - "They have my son!".

And now I see him looking like a combination between a spolied brat and an old woman, always shouting and humiliating people.

Lord Tywin does not humiliate you. He destroys you!

He's a powerful man, not an every-day villain. Please don't ruin him! Don't turn him into a Joker-like villain!

The scene with Amory Lorch, although funny as hell, would mean only one thing in the books: The burning of Harrenhall.

[Jory's Shade]

I don't mind the synthesis of characters and storylines to make the TV narrative more seemless and forum conscious. However, I really wanted to see that bear eat Amory Lorch.

The dragon-knapping was a great plot device to get Dany to go to the House of the Undying. No matter what Dany's motivation for going to visit the warlocks, D&D simply cannot remove the visions she obtains there to keep the overall Fire & Ice saga intact. I understand this show is called Game of Thrones, but it is still the Song of Ice and Fire. The foundation for Lightbringer and R'hllor has been lain, therefore, there must be a foundation for the Prince Who was Promised and the Song of Ice and Fire that is prophesized in the Rhaegar vision.

Subject to the foregoing, the episode was splendid and the Hound stole the show.

[ghost the direwolf]

I love the way the Spice Merchant speaks to bratty Daenery, I just can help but laugh with pleasure. " have you sat on the Iron Throne before? .....

D: "No but my father did"

Emily C is really acting her part well. " I will take what is mine with Fire and blood."

I loved the riot scene , everything : Tyrion slap, Sansa attack and The Hound to the rescue.

So now the dear Queen to be of westeros is the Khalasie of...... what? zero people only Jorah and the only dothraky left? or am I wrong. I did see some dothraky on the floor and since there were only few of them to begin with . ho well I cannot complain this episode was good.

[TyrionFan57]

That's the whole point of the scene. He doesn't know what to do. He's struggling to make a decision that either way will cost him and others dearly. He couldn't kill her in that moment, but he's not yet ready to let her go and put the lives of all his brother crows in danger. Unlike the book, we don't see inside Jon's head in the show, so instead they have to show us his thought process, show us his doubts, show us his moral struggles, before they show us Jon arriving at a decision.

I think you are spot-on. It's possible that they are just setting up more "bonding time" between Jon and Ygritte. I think he will let her go before he joins back up with Quorin and then things will be back on track with what most people believe must happen with Quorin, Jon joining the wildlings, etc.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I saw only two dingle-dangly dragon tails swishing out the basket at the end, not three. I wonder why?

Perhaps that means the third dragonling fell out of the box, or snuck out and got away, or was out hunting wabbits when the dragonnappers arrived, or was with Ser “Just Call me Roger” Jorah on a show-and-tell mission to the ship captains, or is in the box trying to eat its own tail all Ouroboros-like, or had its poor tail lopped off, or got its widdle self squishticated in the snatch, or has already been converted into scrumpdiddlyumptious dragon tikka masala.

Hey now, I wonder who’d know just what the best spices to use in dragon tikka masala might be?

[Lothar Imbel]

Irrelevant, but the way Jack Gleeson said 'not really relevant is it?" made me laugh.

[Howdyphillip]

If you are all correct that Jon had not decided to let her go, but had decided to kill her then it confirms my greatest fear: He’s chasing her because they have nothing else for him to do.

The reason that the scene works for me is because it is a way for the writers to show us the conflicting ideas about his vows and Ygrette that is only made known to the reader by John's thoughts. That is the crucial narrative out of the books with this sub plot, and I thought that the spooning scene was brilliant as it conveyed that message in an easy way for the viewer to understand.

[Arkash]

Rewatching the end of the episode: there is a quick moment when he have a small glimpse at the face of the man carrying the dragons and I think I identify Pyat Pree's skinny jaw.

If you are all correct that Jon had not decided to let her go, but had decided to kill her then it confirms my greatest fear: He’s chasing her because they have nothing else for him to do.

No. It's just postponing the return of Qhorin and giving the character some more time together so when they'll meet the Lord of Bones, Ygritte's vouching for Jon will be more plausible, and I like the fact that we have them just together a little longer, both because I like the actress playing Ygritte and seconly because it gives them more times together and beautiful cinematography.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Arkash