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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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Oh, did anyone else find that Sansa was out of character with Shae? The last time they spoke she completely distrusted her (and with good reason). Sansa didn't trust anyone in King's Landing. And now she starts trusting Shae and needs to be reminded, by Shae herself, to not trust anyone? Meh.

Yeah, that was a bit odd.. I liked her questions about why the rapists hated her, but the bit about her trusting Shae is ridiculous. She was smart enough to play the act with Tyrion, who saved her, she should be smart enough to play act here too.

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I agree with pretty much everything you said. "Manufactured tension" is the theme of this season, it seems. The Craster cliffhanger, Arya stealing the letter, and now the dragons being stolen... stupid and unnecessary.

Oh, did anyone else find that Sansa was out of character with Shae? The last time they spoke she completely distrusted her (and with good reason). Sansa didn't trust anyone in King's Landing. And now she starts trusting Shae and needs to be reminded, by Shae herself, to not trust anyone? Meh.

I didn't have a problem with that. Considering what Sansa had just gone through, it doesn't seem implausible that she'd turn to her servant for comfort/questions. It's good that they're giving her some screentime; she's really been shortchanged this season. I'm not even sure if she'll meet Dontos this season; she should have met him before the part where Joffrey has her beaten.

I don't know, I kind of feel like the writers are just trying too hard to make the story more interesting and dramatic and are ignoring setup adn character development. Frankly, ten episodes was just not nearly enough time for this book, especially with all the stuff they're adding to it. They're hitting most of the key plot points and events, but losing out on all the little moments and sublteties that work so well in the book. Sometimes it does feel like episodes are just a random collection of scenes from differnet characters.

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The dragon stealing was probably the biggest departure from the books so far. My first thought was that it was the warlocks, though what was that tower? Could that be the house of the undying?

I see they decided to portray Robb's affair with Jayne. Of course that makes no sense. Book Robb married her because he slept with her. The whole point was that it was a spur of the moment thing. By portraying this as a long affair the show makes Robb look stupid. He knows he shouldn't betray the Freys and still he does it. Makes the RW almost well deserved.

Same with Jon. The whole point of his defection was that Qhorin ordered him to go with them and do whatever they asked of him. Now he's apparently lost with Ygrette and she takes him to Mance herself.

Seeing Tywin Lannister, Hand of the King, Warden of the West, the Queen's father, richest and most powerful man in all the Seven Kingdom's doing psychotherapy sessions with a 10 year old lowborn servant girl was bizarre to say the least. I know this is Hollywood but at least try to make the show look believable.

The best parts of the episode were no doubt in Winterfell. It was interesting to see how Theon is pressured by his men into becoming a tyrant. In the book it kinda came natural to him. I probably prefer this version though I will now not be able to hate this Theon with quite the same passion. Only complaints I have (besides the obvious ones about shortening every scene) are Rodrick apparently going from Winterfell to Torrhen's square, retaking it, then coming back at the same time that it took Theon to get to Winterfell once, and Theon started earlier. Might be a nitpick but it's this kind of things that hurt the immersion in the story. And where's Bolton's bastard? Without him there will have to be major changes to Theon's story too.

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A pity that the riot scene did not involve horses. They would have added a lot. Budgets are a sad reality.

I honestly doubt it would have been budget, but it would have been HELL to film that scene with horses + having to do it take after take. Horses scare Really easy, the show "Luck" learned that the hard way. Also if the narrow setting of the riot was a real place and not a set/stage(although that creates a Whole new set of problems) if even one horse got spooked it could trample countless extras/cameras/sets.

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My $0.02

I definately fall in the best episode yet this season camp. I have concerns, but I enjoy the show greatly.

Obviously there are more deviations from the book this season compared to last. I respect the right/need to make some changes for television. My only complaint is that they are jarring. they take me out of the story for a moment when I think... "wait, that didn't happen". That said I think there are some situations where people take it too far, nitpicking details like, "they were on horsees", and other situations were I agree things are unnecessary like the Jon chases Ygritte scene. I love love love this show, same with the books, but they are two different things. For me it's just important that they get the major touchstones right. They haven't failed yet, but there are things I am concerned about. Weasel soup is the nearest of those concerns on the horizon. But more about the epi...

I agree with those who say that Theon is much more sympathetic in the show than the books. In the books I didn't truly start to like him until he lept from the walls of Winterfell. In the show you see the characters conflicted loyalties much more clearly. Maybe its the actor but regardless I look forward to Theon scenes while in the book his chapters where not the ones I was overjoyed about. similar with Sansa. For some reason I find her much more interesting in the show. Her silent, patient struggle is much more compelling on the screen than on the page.... wait, sidetrack... the epi...

The capture of Winterfell was well done all around. No problem with Roderick tacking the many hacked beheading. Some things just have to be condensed. And yes the look on Theon's face after was priceless. Man poor Rickon is gonna be one messed up little shit by the time Davos gets to him. The things this kid has seen and been through. I still laugh thinking about him cracking nuts last week.

Loved the riot scene although it didn't seem as desperate or chaotic as in the books. Im not sure what I liked better, the Hounds rescue of Sansa or Tyrion chewing out Joff. Joff is certainly a viscious idiot!

I become more and more ok with the Roose/Tywin switch everytime Arya and Tywin are on screen. some say "oh, he would never talk to a cupbearer....". Since we don't get a Tywin pov Im not sure anyone truly has that much insight to his personality. I do however hate the way Littlefinger is frickin everywhere. If he's traveling all across Westeros how the hell is he arranging Sansa's escape with Dontos. Which by the way is sorely missing. There has been no establishment of a Godswood in KL, nor of Sansa praying. Why intro Dontos in the first ep and then throw him in a closet til next year....? Anyway, way to much Littlefinger and not enough Varys, in my opinion.

Yes the nurse girl form Volantis will be Jeyne Westerling. Im suprised Robb didn't say; "hello Mother, nice to see you, and by the way who is that giant woman dressed like a knight who seems to be following you?" You would think it would spark some curiosity.

I got giddy as a schoolgirl when Roose suggested sending his bastard to take back Winterfell!

My only problem with Arya's kill #2 is that her attitude, the way she commanded Jaqen and her carelessness in stealing the note in the first place, do not seem like qualities that would make him want to send her off to the faceless men for training. On screen though, the way they did the scene, I thought it made good tv.

One last gripe. In that big open northern waste, Qhorin had left Jon like two minutes before Ygritte ran off. They would still be like right there when he was chasing her. Ok 2 last gripes. Why hasn't the open ing map taken us beyond the wall to the fist of the first men? Seems silly not to.

As we approach the end of the season I am looking forward to the arrival of Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas. But I am wondering how the will desguise Ser Barristan for the tv audience since obviously we will be able to see him.

Great epi, great show!

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why should he know she is highborn? All he knows is that she knows how to read.

the show makes it clear, just ten seconds earlier, that not even many highborn MEN ( and and high-ranking army commanders) know how to read well, how likely is that a peasant can, much less a girl child?

I did not like this episode at all, there were more plotholes than plot.

I did not like Ygritte´s "escape", so pontless and ridiculous, same as Dany´s speech to the spice king. She came across like she was about ready to be signed into a mental institution, so hysterical and over the top.

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Jesus guys, Ramsay is NOT GOING TO BE DAGMER.

Roose said my bastard is at the dreadfort, not the iron islands. Ramsay will be someone new, stop a worryin! :)

Also, I hope Snow gets back to the lads and doesn't join the wildlings straight away, that scene where with Snow and Qhorin is crucial. I also wanna see the other members of the watch get killed off as they retreat.

Love the episode. Funny seeing the wedding ring on the guy who talked back to Theon before Cassel turned up.

I like Jeyne Westerling insinuating being a spy ;) should be interesting to see how that turns out. I know if I was Rhob I would be under her spell too.

Edited by Cellio

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It’s pretty obvious that the twist in the show is that Pyat Pree or someone else stole the dragons so Dany would have some reason to go to the House of the Undying, right?

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Not really worried about Lady Hornwood missing from the show; they'll have plenty of time to make Ramsays nature known.

Lady Hornwood might appear in season 3/4 as part of Theon's story.

It’s pretty obvious that the twist in the show is that Pyat Pree or someone else stole the dragons so Dany would have some reason to go to the House of the Undying, right?

It might just be the why she kills the Undying Ones.

Edited by greatgeek

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Perhaps the first time I actually enjoyed a departure from the novel. It can't be said enough how much better Theon's story gets by him executing someone as important as Ser Rodrik. And it doesn't really spoil the story in the long run, as Ser Rodrik is due to die quite shortly anyway, so why not make the best of it?

As a whole I have to say that my biggest concern about season 2 was that they would fail to properly convey Theon's story and he will turn into an antagonist. In hindsight I have to say that conveying Theon's story properly, on occasions even better, has been the height of the season, whereas many other storylines suffer. Given his story to come in later books, I am pleased with this development and not at all worried that Theon might be becoming a far-more-important a character than he was in book 2.

Naught shall be spoken on the subject of dragon theft, lest the Doom falls upon us all.

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The priest having his arm torn off like this was some kind of Romero zombie movie really broke it for me.

Also, I HATED the change to Jon Snow's scenes. In the book he made a decision to let Ygritte go. Here just looks like an indecisive flub. This is like writing class 101: people like decisive protagonists not flubs.

Edited by Gongsun Zan

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Very good episode one of the best this season, here was the highlights :

-The Dog being the disgruntled boss of vioLENCE

-Introducing the San / San thing more; really entertaining later on especially highlighting the awesome difference between Arya and Sans, as seen in Book 3; "Stop thinking of ways to kill me in my sleep, Wolf Girl!" vs "Sing me a song, Little Bird!"

-Someone is Dany's base killing her doodz stealing her dragonz

-Good handling of getting the Winterfell escape in a compressed format, it seemed to fit in naturally even though it was rushed overall.

-Tonk's boobs. Yup. The best part, actually was useful to the plot not too gratuitous though a welcome way to fill this week's boob quotient.

-The direction of Ygritte seemed good, already teasing / starting to pursue Jon; the hip thing evil smile was hilarious.

-The Bastard of Bolton incoming! Run, seriously gtfo lock up your daughters. Such a good creepy uber villain character which will be needed after the Purple Wedding.

-Arya yelling at Jaqen then the way they cut it to the darting seriously made me laugh out loud.

-The Littlefinger scene was an interesting little twist.

-They did a good job on the riot, stop whining about horses using them would of been really expensive and dangerous and it didn't take away any from the scene.

This and epsiode 3 were my favorites from season two so far.

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The dragon stealing was probably the biggest departure from the books so far. My first thought was that it was the warlocks, though what was that tower? Could that be the house of the undying?

I see they decided to portray Robb's affair with Jayne. Of course that makes no sense. Book Robb married her because he slept with her. The whole point was that it was a spur of the moment thing. By portraying this as a long affair the show makes Robb look stupid. He knows he shouldn't betray the Freys and still he does it. Makes the RW almost well deserved.

Same with Jon. The whole point of his defection was that Qhorin ordered him to go with them and do whatever they asked of him. Now he's apparently lost with Ygrette and she takes him to Mance herself.

Seeing Tywin Lannister, Hand of the King, Warden of the West, the Queen's father, richest and most powerful man in all the Seven Kingdom's doing psychotherapy sessions with a 10 year old lowborn servant girl was bizarre to say the least. I know this is Hollywood but at least try to make the show look believable.

The best parts of the episode were no doubt in Winterfell. It was interesting to see how Theon is pressured by his men into becoming a tyrant. In the book it kinda came natural to him. I probably prefer this version though I will now not be able to hate this Theon with quite the same passion. Only complaints I have (besides the obvious ones about shortening every scene) are Rodrick apparently going from Winterfell to Torrhen's square, retaking it, then coming back at the same time that it took Theon to get to Winterfell once, and Theon started earlier. Might be a nitpick but it's this kind of things that hurt the immersion in the story. And where's Bolton's bastard? Without him there will have to be major changes to Theon's story too.

I still think it will be a spur of the moment thing, in the episode he knew that he had a duty to fulfill his word to the Freys so it likely that he sleeps with her after hearing that Theon has killed Bran and Rickon as in the books and marrys her to protect her honor.

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thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

It was obvious that Arya was trying to hide her face. That's what piqued his interest, esp after he got a half a glimpse. He knew who she was.

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Weakest episode of the season IMO. Too many "WTF" scenes not because they were changed from the books, but because they made very little sense. Jon's chase of Ygritte was just ridiculous, just as the later scene with them lying next to each other (Rockroi explained perfectly why). Sansa suddenly trusting and treating Shae like a close friend when the last time we saw those two she hated her and thought she was a spy, Dany thinking that a few ships are all she needs to take the iron Throne, Littlefinger and Arya scene (they've really made him totally incompetent at anything besides brothel management this season) - all of this was poorly written.

Some good moments, of course - the riot, the Winterefell scenes, Michelle Fairley being awesome as usual, but overall I was disappointed. Rose Leslie's acting was great, a shame they didn't give her some decent lines instead of all that nonsense.

Edited by David Selig

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I'm a little disappointed that we actually saw Bran and Rickon leaving. I know it doesn't make any matter to me but somehow it was more dramatic when for a time in the books, we thought Theon had actually murdered them both.

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I'm a little disappointed that we actually saw Bran and Rickon leaving. I know it doesn't make any matter to me but somehow it was more dramatic when for a time in the books, we thought Theon had actually murdered them both.

In the books they 'leave', backtrack to confuse the trail, hide, Theon 'murders' them, then after Winterfell falls they actually leave. As this is their first 'leaving' they can still be 'murdered' and be presumed dead for a time.

Edited by Solmyr

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How awesome is Roose Bolton's upside-down flayed man on his breastbone!!!!

"Because the Greyjoy's are treasonous whores..."

PPFFFFFFHHHH

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