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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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What did the letter say that Arya took? Also, unless Jaqen took it back, wouldn't Tywin know that Arya took it?

The bit I read said: "Robb Stark moves troops south by coast. Alert.... turn east at silverhill"

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Am I the only one thinking the show is damn faithful to the books ?

All the changes there were were merely tiny changes, some little stuff modified.

But the core is still there, the main story lines are still there, no change has been really important so far, only tiny details were modified but this is still the exact same story as in the books.

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Am I the only one thinking the show is damn faithful to the books ?

All the changes there were were merely tiny changes, some little stuff modified.

But the core is still there, the main story lines are still there, no change has been really important so far, only tiny details were modified but this is still the exact same story as in the books.

People like to be negative about everything.

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The letter that Arya took would be from Roose, right? It would fit with Robb saying that he can't discuss troop movements with "Jeyne" since she might be a spy, but we have seen him discuss them freely with Roose.

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What's up with Osha and why is her head always crooked over to the side?

Right? I asked my husband the same thing.

I am really loving this season so far, but am sad that its going by so fast. I'm good with all the changes so far because there's only so much time and, well, I'm not gonna complain if they speed up Dany's storyline. I feel like kidnapping the dragons just served to add some excitement to her story a bit, as opposed to just showing her yelling at people all the time. Honestly, I don't think Clark's acting is all that great, so the less of her yelling about taking what is her's by right, the better, IMO. Can't wait to her in the HOTU!!

LOVED the Theon stuff too. That was perfect. Major kudos to the acting for Theon and Bran.

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- Osha! Tonks busting the kiddos out was awesome. And we got a glimpse of Shaggydog! Loved it when she slit the guys' throat -- great shot of her with her arm out, looking like a ninja.

By Shaggydog, what exactly are you referring to?

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We have a glimpse of Shaggydog alongside Summer at the end of the episode, when they leave Winterfell.

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What an episode!!! The opening scene with Theon when he killed Ser Rodrick was so intense, I didn't even hear one word of the next scene with Jon Snow... my brain was still trying to process what I just saw! And the Hound in action! Woo Hoo! But why, why, WHY did he not kill that last guy cowering in the corner when he was walking out with Sansa over his shoulder?!?! I thought for sure that he was going to stop and stab that dude. Tywin seemed a little too chatty with Aria, but still a great scene. And Dany getting her dragons stolen? At first I was like what is this nonsense... but after I thought about it more, I always wondered while reading the books why this was never attempted. Anywhoo, great episode, and it actually felt long to me for once!

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Am I the only one thinking the show is damn faithful to the books ?

All the changes there were were merely tiny changes, some little stuff modified.

But the core is still there, the main story lines are still there, no change has been really important so far, only tiny details were modified but this is still the exact same story as in the books.

Oh I agree. And even the things that seem like that might lead to big changes aren't really. Littlefinger at Harrenhal is annoying (seriously, is his secret weapon having a car?) but even if he recognized Arya it's not like she's going to end up back at King's Landing. Dany losing her dragons was a shocker, but it makes sense, and you know she's going to get them all back. The major notes are all still being hit, and I don't see any evidence that future ones won't be.

Changes for their own sake can be annoying but the only one I really noticed was the Jeyne Westerling stand-in and its clear that storyline is heading to the same place. Changes that improve on something in the novel, like Arya being forced to "waste" her second death, are great. Changes that reveal something important about a character, like the Tywin/Arya interactions, are always welcome in a story. Changes that can add drama without sacrificing the story or common sense, like someone trying to steal the dragons, should be welcomed.

GRRM has frequently said that his authoring-style is akin to gardening, where he doesn't always know what the paths the journey will take when he starts out, but that he does know where it will all end up. Dan and David are growing their garden a bit differently, maybe more hydroponically (disclaimer: I don't have a good grasp of gardening terminology), but they will still have the same tomatoes in the end. Ripe, delicious, and bloody, tomatoes.

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and its clear that storyline is heading to the same place.

That is exactly what I feel too, yes ! Despite the tiny variations, we are watching the same story !

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Oh I agree. And even the things that seem like that might lead to big changes aren't really. Littlefinger at Harrenhal is annoying (seriously, is his secret weapon having a car?)

hahaha! :rofl:

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I'm curious why only one person was sneaking the dragons to the House of the Undying, especially if it's Doreah, considering Daenerys' entire khalasaar was murdered to get them.

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The letter that Arya took would be from Roose, right? It would fit with Robb saying that he can't discuss troop movements with "Jeyne" since she might be a spy, but we have seen him discuss them freely with Roose.

The way they shot the close up of the letter, Roose advising Robb not to go back north but to let his bastard son go to Winterfell, and Robb mentioning spies, all combined to ring a red bell in my mind while watching the show. I think it was intended for us to suspect the letter is from a spy, and make us suspect someone with access to Robb. At this point I think we're meant to suspect Talysa, she's still a mystery to us, but whether it's her or Roose depends on what D&D want to do with both characters next season.

Edited by Sun

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Count me among those who didn't get the general criticism of this episode. I thought it was much better than the previous one, to be honest!

Best parts:

  • Sack of Winterfell - 2 minutes into the episode and I was already teary-eyed. Theon killing Ser Rodrik instead of the servant (can't remember now who was) to pay "the iron price" was not a bad change. I get that in the book, it may have a special meaning that even a lowborn man would get Theon schooled ("Lord Stark always took care of his own deaths" or something like this), but being directly responsible for Ser Rodrik's beheading probably has more impact in Theon's psyque. In addition, props to Master Luwin/Donald Sumpter :D

  • The riot at King's Landing - loved it, truly well-directed IMO. Great acting by both Jack Gleeson and Peter Dinklage. Also, Joff slap :devil:

  • Jaqen's face when Arya tells him to hurry the f**** up - priceless. I honestly laughed out loud!

  • NW scenes - those Icelandic landscapes are simply incredible. The girl who plays Ygritte was some spot-on casting IMO.

As for Dany getting her dragons stolen.... oh well this is TV. I prefer they'd stick a bit more to the book plot, but i understand besides the HotU, her storyarch is kinda slow and boring in this book. They had to give her something to do and something for the viewers to be interested about.

All in all a good episode :)

EDIT - About the letter - probably it was Roose? Although the best cover for Talysa would be mock-telling Robb she's a spy, in order for him not to think so...

Edited by Little Miss Sunshine

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I'm wondering now, even if I didnt find the theory valid at first... yeah, it well may be Doreah who betrayed... we know at least Drogon likes her, so maybe he didnt do too much trouble for following her... and since she's dead in the books, maybe they'll catch up with that and kill her now in the show, and I dont think Pyat Pree would have done this... which leaves eventually just Doreah.

And it's a funny feeling to be surprised by the show and theorizing about who took the dragons...

Edited by Arkash

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Hats off to whoever came up with Dagmer=Ramsay.

That's brilliant. It makes perfect sense. Dagmer already seems to take over Reeks function at Theon's side. And it would explain why they didn't cast Ramsay. They actually did, right under our noses. Sneaky bastards.

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As for my thoughts...

Dany: I loved the scene with the spice king. It kind of sets up the mindset that she needs to "fight" for what she wants and not expect people to give it to her. This sets up her need to go to slavers bay to buy an army nicely. Also, as I mentioned earlier, they had to give her something more dramatic to do this season than sit around with one breast exposed. She had to go to the House of the Undying anyway and now, she'll have even more reason to want it burned to the ground. Also, as far as her visions there go, they could easy make her drink the shade of the evening in order to win her dragons back.

Jon/Ygritte: Also loved this. It give Ygritte more screen time, so Jon and she can build a relationship. This way, it makes more sense when she vouches for him to Rattleshirt. I'd imagine that Jon will find the Halfhand in the next episode and he'll release Ygritte before he rejoins his brothers. I would have also like a "You know nothing John Snow" when he asked her to quit moving the second time. :)

Theon: WOW.... I never felt much sympathy for Theon until he became Reek (and even then, it almost made me angry that I DID feel sympathy after what he had done), but I'm genuinely sad for his character. You can tell that he's fighting himself with every choice made. Being pulled in two different directions constantly. They are handling his story brilliantly.

Arya/Tywin/Jaqen/Littlefinger: I love Jaqen and I'm actually kind of sad that he'll be gone soon. His reaction when Arya says "Now!" was priceless. Also, the Dyslexia thing makes sense even if it is new. Jamie was never known for being book smart and the story adds depth to Tywin and like others have said, reinforces GRRMs premise through out the books. That just like in life, most people are not inherently good or evil, but a mixture of the two.

Tyrion/San/San/Joffrey: Basically a perfect scene. Tyrion was brilliant as usual.

This episode was almost perfect. If gave screen time all around without anything feeling rushed or cut short. My only problem now is that we're over halfway through this season and the wait for season three will be unbearable. :(

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Hats off to whoever came up with Dagmer=Ramsay.

That's brilliant. It makes perfect sense. Dagmer already seems to take over Reeks function at Theon's side. And it would explain why they didn't cast Ramsay. They actually did, right under our noses. Sneaky bastards.

I really like this idea, but wasn't Dagmer with Theon before he left Pyke? Why would Ramsey be on the Iron Isles?

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LF recognizes Arya. If he doesn't then that scene is very dishonest, first he notices that she is trying to hide from him, then he gets a clear look at her, and the he ends the scene saying "Both Daughters" while looking right at her. He knows or that was some very dishonest direction. (Dishonest direction is when the big twist occurs and you look back at previous scenes and they make know sense considering that twist.)

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So, just one more thing about the scene that really has me shaking my head (and its not the dragon kidnapping scene; Dany needs to do something, it makes a certain kind of sense and I am willing to let that play out- it may work):

Why is Jon chasing Ygritte? I know people here loved that scene (and that's fine you may have better, more refined tastes than me), but we are now 13 pages and 250+ posts and nobody has been able to adequately explain to me why he is chasing her. Jon decided not to kill her, we get that, and as she runs, he chases her? Why? Did she drop her hand-bag? Why is he chasing after the prisoner he just let free? Its not that its nonsensical (and don't get me wrong it makes absolutely no sense); its that we had a really clear explanation in the books and we are just not sticking with it. I mean people seemed to have loved that scene- what is their explanation as to why he's chasing her?

And remember Ghost? What was he doing? Is Ghost really even here at this point? Was he in the back going, "Jesus... fuck me... all the running ... Jon she... she's just going to try to kill you in your sleep... I'm not chasing that...she's gotta be... what? Ten fifteen yards away at this point... I could turn an ankle and ... and he nearest hospital is, like 1,500 years away so... and I am NOT going back to Craster's nosireeBob... So, I'm just going to stay over here and wait to see how all this turns out- why don't you chase the redhead and I'll just watch ..."

And my favorite part was when they first capture Ygritte and Qhorin Half-hand is like, "Don't bother asking her any questions; she won't answer them..." And then they proceed to ask her questions and she answers every single one. Somebody has to be a better proof-reader.

Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

(and one final note: I think this may be one gigantic circumnavigation around Jon's orders to betray the Watch and stay with the wildings and make it so Half-hand actually THINKS Jon has gone over to the wildings. This may end up with Jon REALLY fighting Halfhand and REALLY being taken in by the wildings. If that is the case... then I think ... then I think it goes from being "Nitpicking" to "Oh, this is just bad.")

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