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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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I really like this idea, but wasn't Dagmer with Theon before he left Pyke? Why would Ramsey be on the Iron Isles?

In order to steer Theon towards taking Winterfell. Watch their conversation from last weeks episode again. It's Dagmer who nudges him into that direction.

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Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

My first thought, other than the whole thing being bad for Jon's character, is that he didn't want her to give away their position. But what would she give away? "There were some rangers here that killed some guys." Aren't there rangers out in that side of the wall quite frequently? If not, what are their jobs?

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The half-hand will return in future episodes where Jon will have to "prove" something. Its been confirmed, no worrys there.

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Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

Um... because he never set her free, he just chose not to kill her. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this; he didn't make the choice he did in the novels of letting her go. He couldn't bring himself to kill her, but wasn't about to let her escape, either.

Does that concept really need an essay-length post asking why?

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The half-hand will return in future episodes where Jon will have to "prove" something. Its been confirmed, no worrys there.

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Um... because he never set her free, he just chose not to kill her. I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with this; he didn't make the choice he did in the novels of letting her go. He couldn't bring himself to kill her, but wasn't about to let her escape, either.

Does that concept really need an essay-length post asking why?

But what does he expect to do with her? He was supposed to dispose of Ygritte. The other rangers aren't going to accept him just dragging her along as a prisoner if he meets back up with them - or is he about to try taking her back to the Wall by himself?

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So, just one more thing about the scene that really has me shaking my head (and its not the dragon kidnapping scene; Dany needs to do something, it makes a certain kind of sense and I am willing to let that play out- it may work):

Why is Jon chasing Ygritte? I know people here loved that scene (and that's fine you may have better, more refined tastes than me), but we are now 13 pages and 250+ posts and nobody has been able to adequately explain to me why he is chasing her. Jon decided not to kill her, we get that, and as she runs, he chases her? Why? Did she drop her hand-bag? Why is he chasing after the prisoner he just let free? Its not that its nonsensical (and don't get me wrong it makes absolutely no sense); its that we had a really clear explanation in the books and we are just not sticking with it. I mean people seemed to have loved that scene- what is their explanation as to why he's chasing her?

And remember Ghost? What was he doing? Is Ghost really even here at this point? Was he in the back going, "Jesus... fuck me... all the running ... Jon she... she's just going to try to kill you in your sleep... I'm not chasing that...she's gotta be... what? Ten fifteen yards away at this point... I could turn an ankle and ... and he nearest hospital is, like 1,500 years away so... and I am NOT going back to Craster's nosireeBob... So, I'm just going to stay over here and wait to see how all this turns out- why don't you chase the redhead and I'll just watch ..."

And my favorite part was when they first capture Ygritte and Qhorin Half-hand is like, "Don't bother asking her any questions; she won't answer them..." And then they proceed to ask her questions and she answers every single one. Somebody has to be a better proof-reader.

Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

(and one final note: I think this may be one gigantic circumnavigation around Jon's orders to betray the Watch and stay with the wildings and make it so Half-hand actually THINKS Jon has gone over to the wildings. This may end up with Jon REALLY fighting Halfhand and REALLY being taken in by the wildings. If that is the case... then I think ... then I think it goes from being "Nitpicking" to "Oh, this is just bad.")

You're really assuming way too much here. First off, he's chasing her because he didn't let her go yet. He couldn't kill her, she ran, he chased her. At this point, I don't think he really knows what to do with her. I believe that he'll find the Halfhands encampment, but before he rejoins him, he'll "surprisingly" let Ygritte go free. Later, Ygritte vouches for Jon to Rattleshirt. Adding in a little more face to face time with the two instead of him letting her go automatically actually works better if you think about it. It will likely all work out the same in the end. This way (like most of the changes in the TV series) simply works better on screen than sticking with the way it was done in the book. They can't do a bunch of inner monologue like you get in a book, so they have to actually "show" you more.

Also, as far as Ghost not being around, they had a scene before this one where he was wondering off.

Edited by Versiroth

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Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

Because he doesnt want her to tell Mance she saw men of the NW... I think Jon is lost as to what to do with her, but doesnt want to let her go.

Edited by Arkash

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Don't understand why people get angry by the deviations the show takes from the books.. Get over it, the show isnt going to be exactly like the book. If it upsets you that much stop watching the show, read the book again, and shut up.

Ok, good episode.

Dany: Wonder what's going to happen with the stolen dragons. I'm assuming the tower was the house of the undying and the warlocks are somehow mixed up in the theft foreshadowing their inevitable death. *Fingers crossed for Rhaegar vision*

Arya: Did a good job on giving the second death justice, otherwise there would have been little or no reason for J'aqen not to kill tywin or joffrey or something.

KL: Overall good job on those scenes. Tyrion slapping joffrey was sick!

Jon: These are the only scenes i didn't like that much. Can't think of a specific reason why but I didnt like them.

Robb: Still a little skeptical on how the are going to portray the Westerling affair but I am intrigued to see how exactly it goes down.

Once Roose mentioned Ramsay I was basically jumping up and down... Sooo pumped they didn't cut the bastard.

and finally

Theon: Awesome! Effing Awesome! Beheading was great. Liked Ser Rodrik saying "He who gives the sentence should swing the sword."

*Chop Chop Chop.... Kick* lol.

so thats my take on the episode. If something I said bothers you.......... f*** off.

Edited by Francys Targaryen

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We have a glimpse of Shaggydog alongside Summer at the end of the episode, when they leave Winterfell.

I was making a joke. We saw something else Shaggy in the scene he described.

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Oh, okay, didnt get the joke! ^^

Indeed, now! =D

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Another fantastic episode.

Loved the riot scene in Kings Landing.That merchant got disarmed! Seeing Joffrey get hit with the cow patty was a nice visual. The hound continues to be awesome, he's such a great character. If not for the Mountain, I see Sandor as someone similar to Dunk.

We are missing one element that is bothering me, when does the dragonglass cache get found? I thought for sure that it was going to happen yesterday when Ghost was keeping his distance.

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I'm sure, as I've often said, the dragonglass will be find by Sam and co at the Fist, to give them more screen time !

It's the chain we are missing !

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As for Tywin -- very similar views here. It's not that I dislike the Tywin scenes, but I do call into question whether it REALLY is Tywin Lannister showing respect and interest to a servant. This is the guy who had a full barracks of men rape a woman his son married because she was simply not royalty, in order to embed a sense of discrimination in his son. Tywin's message - there are rulers, and there are ruled, and if you are a ruler, then any woman not of royalty is a whore (after your riches), and this is to make sure you NEVER make the mistake of bridging that divide. So... Yes, there is grey in ASoIaF, but different shades of grey: Tywin WAS a very prejudiced man, and that makes perfect sense given the inevitably hierarchical medieval Machiavellian setting he lived in, and I do think people should appreciate that, or at the very least be exposed to it. That system of oligarchical conquest persisted for a while... it didn't change much until the rapid advances in the economy and in weapon technology which created less incentive and a sort of deterrent to non-stop conquest (no longer needed to plunder others to have enough natural resources, and the risk was higher), and also decentralized protection; protection which peasants formerly heavily relied on the ruling class to provide.

There are these notions we often have of "uncivilized", "racist", "classist", or "sexist" just being an unfortunate *happenstance* of the past, rather than realizing their existence and early development were (pretty much) inevitable and "logical" outcomes given historical context. I feel like the book/author strongly embodies this sentiment, which I think ultimately represents appreciating "grey" in all the characters--NOT this "everybody has a good heart" rubbish that seems to be a common TV series pitch these days.

So... yeah I'd like to see Ygritte and Tywin a little LESS endearing, the way they were in the books. :P

Doubt many will read this, but feel free to PM me if you disagree!

You're missing the point that they are trying to depict Tywin as someone who values intelligence above other things. He's in harrenhal (an awful place) surrounded by ignorants lords (or wathever) and this girl is the only viable interlocutor he can find. I don't saying it in a nostalgic/romantic way. It's merely practical. an educated man who needs good conversation.

They did a very subtle and good job depicting how important is being intelligent to him that he tells how he sits with Jaime 4 hours a day to make him read: a nice contrast between his love for Jaime, the apparently perfect son who can't learn, who can't read and his hate for brilliant Tyrion, who has the intelligence that he admires. This contrast is really interesting.

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Did anyone else hear Talisa say her last name was Maegi (or sounded something very much like that)? What do you think this means for Robb breaking his vows/Red Wedding storyline and the conjecture surrounding that?

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You're missing the point that they are trying to depict Tywin as someone who values intelligence above other things.

And why wouldn't he? Wits and smarts are what led to the rise of House Lannister.

Every Lannister should value this above all else.

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Haha are u serious? So just because she's hotter? Oh my god thats fucking retarted.

Not as much as how you spell retarded.

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Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

I'm not quite sure where your confusion lies.

Why were they killing her in the first place? Two stated reasons:

1- Because they don't have enough food to feed her if they let her live.

2- Because if they let her go, she would run and alert Mance Rayder and his people of their presence and bring some Wildings back with her to kill em.

Why was he chasing her after he failed to kill her? Please see point 2.

Edited by Sun

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