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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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The character they're doing the worst with has to be Baelish. On the show he seems obvious and not especially clever. In the book he is a total enigma, you can never be sure what his motivations or loyalties are. He just seems to thrive in the chaos. Gillen is doing the best he can with the material but still disappointing.

I actually think they are handling Baelish quite cleverly. When you stop to think about it, only we the viewers get to see 'more' of him, because we see him interract with so many different people. And yes, I know he has been given some additional scenes, but that only adds to his mystery.

To the various characters in the TV series, he only shows the face he wants them to see of him. But as viewers see, he has many faces depending on who he is with. I rather enjoy this aspect, because when viewers see him playing up to so many people and helping them plot against each other, we start to wonder which is the 'real' Baelish, if indeed we have yet seen anything of that person. What IS he up to? You certainly can't determine that from the series so far. He seems more obvious in the TV series because we are seeing him objectively, and not through the eyes of others in their book POVs.

Edited by Currawong

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

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Dany announcing what she and her dragons will do in every episode is becoming very much like Robb's camp announcing that he's KOTN. Really just comical to me.

And are we really expected to believe that Robb would not question his mother about Renly's death, or notice the 6'3" woman she's picked up on her way back? :shocked: Really, because that just seriously pushes the envelope of credulity in my estimation. I don't care how infatuated you are with Volantine Medicine Woman, a six foot three woman wearing battle armor following your mother around would still be hard to miss.

Or, perhaps I'm just preternaturally perceptive. LOL.

Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Robb welcomes his mother back and doesn't even take a glance at the big sodding giant that she's brought back with her. You'd think he'd at least make some subtle gesture, or that Catelyn might even make an effort to say "yo boy, this is my new close protection. Oh, and she's a woman who can remove the head from the shoulders of any man". In fact, you'd also think that half the camp would be stopping to take a glance. That's kind of the point of Brienne; she's something of a curiosity which is partly where her awkwardness comes from.

In fact, one of the things that I've noticed is that a lot of the subtlety has left this series. Last series, there were little asides hat added to the depth of the characters (the nods between Robert and Ned at Winterfell, the glance between Ned and Arya when Sansa was talking about Joffrey, Theon's reaction to the news that Robb would have to marry a Frey, etc). Those little touches are being removed or replaced with hit-you-in-the-face exposition or WTF!!! moments.

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

I expect Harrenhal to fall to the North in the next two episodes. Northmen will be captured next week leaving Arya to decide whether to use her third wish to kill Tywin or free her people.

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And yes, I know he has been given some additional scenes, but that only adds to his mystery.

I'm wondering if these extra Littlefinger scenes with the Arya plotline are leading to something specific -- that wasn't in the books. First, we have the gratuitous scene where Cersei threatens his life and tells him to have his people find Arya. At the time, no one understood why that scene was added other than to make Cersei look like she's losing her composure. Then, we have the gratuitous scene in this episode where Arya is, of all places in the Seven Kingdoms, attending to Tywin and she even spills wine on Littlefinger. People seem to think that this scene was added just to increase artificial tension, but they had enough tension with Lorch seeing her with the note and chasing her, etc.

I don't know what it's building to. Maybe when Tywin shows up in Kings Landing, Littlefinger will ask "where's Arya Stark? Didn't you bring her? She was your cupbearer at Harrenhal. What do you mean you didn't know? How could you not know? Young, educated Northern girl on her own about a thousand miles from home. Same age as the young educated Northern girl that your daughter, Varys and my spies have been searching frantically for not far from here. You didn't know? When was the last time you saw her?"

In the books, Littlefinger had no involvement at all in the Arya plot. I have to believe these two extra scenes that chewed up precious minutes and made no sense at the time will tie in somewhere down the road.

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What happens to the third wish? Because Lord Bolton is with Robb Stark and I don't know what is going to happen next. I mean Aria used the third wish to capture the Harrenhall for Lord Bolton...

The letter that Arya read stated that Robb was heading south via the coast, it also mentioned something about Silverhill which is just southwest of Harrenhal. I take that to mean that we will be seeing Robb's forces, probably under Bolton take the cursed castle sometimes soon, possibly episode 10.

Edited by Sun

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Best episode this season. I felt a bit cheated about not seeing the attack on Winterfell but I think the first we heard about it in the book was when Bran got woke up.

In the book, Bran has warged into Summer and sees the attack from outside the castle. I was hoping they would do it that way in the series, but I fully understand it would have taken away the dramatic impact. What works on the page - i.e. the wolf thinking of 'man-rocks' and the scents of blood and steel etc., won't work the same in the visual medium. Then, yes, Ser Tom, boy and wolf separate again and Bran wakes up in bed.

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Ha! That's exactly what I thought. Robb welcomes his mother back and doesn't even take a glance at the big sodding giant that she's brought back with her. You'd think he'd at least make some subtle gesture, or that Catelyn might even make an effort to say "yo boy, this is my new close protection. Oh, and she's a woman who can remove the head from the shoulders of any man". In fact, you'd also think that half the camp would be stopping to take a glance. That's kind of the point of Brienne; she's something of a curiosity which is partly where her awkwardness comes from.

In fact, one of the things that I've noticed is that a lot of the subtlety has left this series. Last series, there were little asides hat added to the depth of the characters (the nods between Robert and Ned at Winterfell, the glance between Ned and Arya when Sansa was talking about Joffrey, Theon's reaction to the news that Robb would have to marry a Frey, etc). Those little touches are being removed or replaced with hit-you-in-the-face exposition or WTF!!! moments.

That's actually an excellent point. I totally forgot about Brienne, the distraction we get from Jeyne and Robb. But seriously, Renly died quickly and was quickly forgotten, and the huge blonde woman-knight is also forgotten. ha!

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Looking more closely at that letter... I no longer think there's any credence to the idea that it is evidence of a spy in Robb's camp.

It seems pretty clear that the bit before the line about Robb Stark moving south down the coast is "Scouts..." Probably "Scouts report". It seems natural enough to think that there'll be men in the west keeping an eye on Robb's movements and reporting them.

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I expect Harrenhal to fall to the North in the next two episodes. Northmen will be captured next week leaving Arya to decide whether to use her third wish to kill Tywin or free her people.

That's the only take away I can get from Tywin's microsecond clip on the preview. That the Brave Companions have returned with the prisoners. I didn't expect the book's storyline to followed at this point, maybe it wont.

Still Tywin has to leave soon, end of this episode, start of E8?

So Weasel Soup in E8 (as has been prophesied).... but not much time left for Harrenhal stuff, Aray's escape in E10.

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Favorite episode of the season so far, even with the large deviations and the added stuff for Dany.

How can you not love watching Joffrey get hit in the face with shit and slapped in the same episode.

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I think Harrenhal will pretty much go the same as the book, just without Roose Bolton. Tywin leaves, Brave Companions switch sides as part of Weasel Soup.

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I think Harrenhal will pretty much go the same as the book, just without Roose Bolton. Tywin leaves, Brave Companions switch sides as part of Weasel Soup.

Have the Brave Companions even been mentioned yet? I'd like to see the goat.

Also, not having Roose at Harrenhal means that there won't be a set-up for "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", which would be a disappointment. Unless they decide to change that to "Talisa from Volantis sends her regards"...

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Am I the only one thinking the show is damn faithful to the books ?

All the changes there were were merely tiny changes, some little stuff modified.

But the core is still there, the main story lines

are still there, no change has been really

important so far, only tiny details were modified but this is still the exact same story as in the books.

A friend of mine and myself were talking about this the other day-he hasn't read the books- i was telling him that he was lucky for not having read the books because he benefits from not being upset about the changes. And after I ranted on for a half hour about the millions of little (I felt) unnecessary changes he said that I was overreacting because they all sounded to him like tiny changes that won't really change much in the but that are more important/symbolic to fans of the books, who are bound to find things they don't like about the 'adaptation'. Plus the generic "it can't be exactly like it was in the books" line. My argument was that I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't becoming painfully obvious that the writers of the show are making a point of showing that theirs is a different story.

My best example of this is Renly's lack of peach. Now I know this will sound petty to some people who claim that the peach holds absolutely no importance to the story; I agree to a point, but the writers proved in the same episode that they knew about the peach (focus shot of Renly reaching for the apple) but chose to leave it out purposefully knowing readers were anticipating seeing it. Because if you read the book that little insignificant peach was a topic of discussion for at least a few pages. Stannis dwells on it forever, and while I can understand not being able to make time for that not including the peach seems to me to be a deliberate slap in the face.

Most changes have been small, just so. But they are all over the place. Taking ideas and decisions away from certain characters and giving them to other ones, removing characters and combing those lost stories into the stories of main characters.

Now I'm rambling but i want to make it clear that I am not actually trashing the show. On it's own it is great, but as a person who was seriously looking forward to seeing a great series of books turned into a tv show I was and am continually disappointed to find out that I am instead watching a cheap version of fanfiction(it is essentially somebody else's rewrite) even though they have kept the main plot points I get the feeling that they'll continue to skip over some great subplots. And furthermore the way certain scenes played out so differently on the show than they did in the books makes me no longer looking forward to certain scenes as much as I am afraid to see what changes they'll make. The down and up playing of certain characters will eventually have to effect the end story differently.

As of right now I'm doubting if I'll look forward to the RW, Jon joining the free folk/killing QH/Jamie,brine and VHoat/the purple wedding/Ramsay takes winterfell and so much more. I could be wrong(I seriously hope I am) but I think when those scenes finally happen these boards are going to be filled with angry readers.

Just my opinion on the subject

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Have the Brave Companions even been mentioned yet? I'd like to see the goat.

Also, not having Roose at Harrenhal means that there won't be a set-up for "Jaime Lannister sends his regards", which would be a disappointment. Unless they decide to change that to "Talisa from Volantis sends her regards"...

I was looking forward to seeing the Bloody Mummers but after seeing the way everyone's been sanitized on this show they'd just end up being more extras in Lannister colours.

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Vargo Hoat has not been cast this season as far as I can tell. I suspect we won't even see the bloody mummers this season. It may be that Arya uses her 3rd kill to escape rather than killing the guard herself.

Edited by Tadco26

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Once Tywin leaves, there needs to be a STRONG reason for Arya to leave, I don't see why they wouldn't keep him as that.

Maybe it'll just be the news of her brothers that will prompt her to leave...

Edited by HouseLancaster

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Maybe it'll just be the news of her brothers that will prompt her to leave...

The main thing is Arya's trick of getting Jaqen to do some more than simply taking out a single victim.

That was a delicious surprise in the book ... I am guessing D&D have not missed that point.

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This was my favorite episode of the season thus far. I had been quite distracted by the seemingly pointless changes from the source text... just little things irritating me. I have no beef when the source text is changed, but is also interesting and better for the medium, as, in my opinion, we saw in episode 6. For example, I understand killing Ser Rodrik... he's someone that's been endeared to the audience over the course of season 1, so we feel the loss and realize just how low Theon has sunk--it had to be someone we already met to have this effect.

My biggest complaint about the season so far is, as has been mentioned earlier, the lack of subtlety in the writing. There's just so much going on that we miss out on little moments that wink to the readers and may pass over the heads of those viewers who haven't delved into the books yet. I think that moments like that are necessary and very rewarding to those of us who are constantly looking at the series through the lens of the books.

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