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[Book Spoilers] EP 206 Discussion

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The Spice King scene sort of reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Speaking of the Spice King, has anyone else thought of Vizzini from "The Princess Bride" when you hear the Spice King talk? They both have that same whiny voice at times. Maybe that was a bit of a stretch... Oh well!

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thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

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Speaking of the Spice King, has anyone else thought of Vizzini from "The Princess Bride" when you hear the Spice King talk? They both have that same whiny voice at times. Maybe that was a bit of a stretch... Oh well!

He'd need a pretty pronounced lisp too, but I get what you're saying. :)

Edited by J.S. Crews

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Lack of sex! - not a prude, but that was great. 2 weeks in a row, woot! (not counting that boob flash of potential Lollys)

Just "implied sex" this week. Obviously Osha and Theon weren't jus lying naked in bed together. Loved Theon's line when he first sees her naked! :lol:

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I just get the feeling that the show does not know why we all liked the books so much. I mean it’s not “you-can’t-improve-on-perfection” or anything like that; more like that scene in Annie Hall- I just want to be standing in line and pull out George RR Martin and have him say “You know nothing about my work.”

But, alas, life is not that easy.

Anyway… here is what I liked this week:

The Taking of Winetrfell 1,2,3: SEE!!! Not every scene needs 12 scenes to set up! You start with a quick bit of dialog, you advance to Rodrick saying that Torren Square is under attack then BOOM! Theon is in Bran’s bedroom. That all made sense! We didn’t need a 20 minute set up or plot advancement. We all knew what was going on. Now, I will say that getting Ser Rodrick back into the castle looked… lame (it was we can all admit it- one guy on a horse- just looked sad… and … do, what, like 12 people live in Winterfell? ) Everything advanced naturally after that- Bran’s dialog (“Did you always hate us?”), Osha’s actions, the escape etc- it all made perfect, unvarnished sense. Tight writing, quick scenes, snappy dialog- AND DONE! That was fast writing (again, Cassell’s entrance was very sloppy), but very good.

And watching Theon kick his head off… that was just brutal.

The Tywin and Arya Show: I could honestly watch the two of them for like 3 hours straight. I actually walk up to my TV whenever they are on the screen. Amazing shit. They are writing these scenes with good material from the books but cut deeply with materials that they are making up. AND ITS WORKING! Both characters (and actors) are hitting such incredible points and making it all so believable. And then they added Littlefinger and it was all good.

I mean at this rate, I just want to watch them! Look, let’s say HBO just won’t do the whole series but they settle on this format- Tywin and Arya have various characters from A Song of Ice and Fire visit them and they engage in random banter. Tell me you would not watch that! Fuck, just Tywin sits there, grills them out while Arya runs circles around them. One week it would be Doran Martell, the next The crossbow kid from the Inn, then Viserion: this would work! You would watch every episode! And maybe we would see Jaime again!

(and didn’t know Jaime was dyslexic)

The Hound: So, again, there are some scenes that just need to work or the show fails. One of them was the beheading at Baelor’s; another was the Shadowbaby, etc. Those scenes HAVE to work or they make us know… something is not right (see: Renly and Stannis negotiation scene). Well one of those scenes was the riot at King’s Landing and the rise of King Bread (ha! I kill me). The show captured the complete chaos of that scene- it made us all fear the tinderbox of KL and the unsteady hold this family has on its people. When that crowd went ballistic, we all believed it. That scene hummed along exactly as we had pictured it in our brains (with minor changes that do not bother anyone- no horses, and I am not sure how much strength it takes to rip a human arm off another person). Tyrion and Joff were both incredible. That scene fucking worked.

And then they were raping Sansa. And for a moment I was like, “I think they are going to show Sansa getting raped. And I really, really do not want them to rape Sansa. I really do not need to see that. I really want this to not happen.” And just when I thought it would happen, Darth Fucking Vader walked in and stared making mother-fuckers dead. He ripped out guts, slashed throats and otherwise made men turn into bags of meat. And for a moment we all remembered why we know the Hound is the Hound. The carry-back and the “I didn’t do it for you” was all amazing. Top fucking moment right there.

Robb Stark: Gotta hand it to him: the guy acts like a King. And at this point watching that Volantis chick walk away, I almost can’t blame him for the whole "fuck up the Freys thing." Almost (see below).

What I am Not Sure About:

The New Adventures of Old Dany Targaryen: Okay so blah blah blah… going to see this guy … blah blah blah… going to see that guy … blah blah blah … richest man in Qarth, worked on docks, told us all of this before... blah blah blah. you are angry and you foam at the mouth… blah blah blah … come back and the dragons have been kidnapped. I know – this was what I was supposed to think: NOoooo!!!!! Not her dragons! She loves them like children (even though we have never really seen them together) and they are her pride and joy!!! NO!!!!!

Here is what I actually thought: Mother fucker! :bang:When is this waste of time going to end?! Why do we need to go through this when we know that the dragons will “soon be back in her hands” (second DV reference today).” I groaned out loud.

But here is my “glass-is-half-full” justification: Dany has to do something. Look, in Clash, Dany has, literally, 5 chapters in the whole book (by contrast Tyrion has 15). And in those chapters she does next to nothing until the House of the Undying. And even there it’s all kinda amorphous and shrouded. This (really lame) kidnapping plot is the ONLY way they can keep Dany in the show without making us wonder why she is in the show in the first place. I am willing to let this one play out.

Shae Didn’t Suck Out Loud And Make Me Want To Kill Puppies: Brief, quick, stayed on point, not silly dialog and even made a cogent point that shows she is going to eventually betray Tyrion. Perfectly fine. I hope I can avoid her for the rest of the season.

Cat Stark Back In Camp: I don’t think I trust this. How is Robb supposed to make the most boneheaded decision in the book if his mom is constantly around him and warning him? I am a little bit uneasy about this.

What I Did Not Like:

In Defense Of My Sex: Look, after watching Robb Stark be around girls and act like an idiot, but more importantly Theon with Osha, Jon with Ygritte and the guard with Osha (and add to that in prior episodes, Stannis with Mal), I just want to say this:

You know that if you simply rub up against a man we don’t all turn fucking stupid, right? I mean, watching Jon be afraid of a woman moving near him with 18 layers between them (seriously- if you rub up against a fully clothed man dressed for winter it doesn’t automatically turn hard and make you want to fuck everything in sight) and then watching every Ironman look at Osha like they were all diabetic and she had the insulin wedged in her tits, all I could think of was, “I would totally fuck that” “The idea that men are just fucking idiots is totally cool with everyone.” I can understand some things, but the guard? They JUST took the castle! This guy ain’t thinking, “There is a chance somebody may try to knife me because that is totally what I would do to them"?! And remember- Ironborn! He knows who Asha (or Yaya or whatever the fuck her name) is! This guy just thinks every women he just kidnapped wants to fuck him?

I know its pretty identical to the books, but I didn’t like it there either. I just feel the need to say that all men are not dick-led idiots.

The Land Of Always Wasting My Time: So this is what we are doing with Ygritte? Turning it into a misguided kidnapping where Jon Snow has to lamely chase her? And why is he chasing her? Why do we need this? Can’t you just do all this later? WHAT THE FUCK!? This is empty space! Wasted Time! This is time I could be spending watching Jaime (remember him!?!) or Stannis or any in a long line of characters who do not make me want to throw my TV into a lake!

See, in the books, we know WITH ONE LINE OF DIALOG why Jon didn’t kill Ygritte. We get it- he doesn’t want to kill a woman. Got it! DONE! Simple, economy of time. The show? He strikes on the rock and instead of him saying (in a compassionate, humane way that would make us all try to empathize with this GIGANTIC walking cliché) “Go… before I change my mind, Ygritte” she jumps away and HE CHASES HER? WTF FOR?! ! ! He just let her go? Why is he chasing somebody he just let go? It makes him look indecisive, weak, confused and WASTES OUR TIME! And it makes no sense. At all.

So, instead of making Jon Snow a human being the show made him an unclear plot devise. Well done, A Game of Thrones: you somehow made me hate Jon Snow even more than I did in the books. And that was no easy feat.

Starting to Be Like Dragon Claws on a Blackboard (and in Defense of the Other Sex): Just a little bit of advice to the writers: not everything that comes out of Dany’s (time wasting) mouth has to make her sound crazy. Okay? Why does she have to end EVERY sentence with “I will burn (insert name of area or person here) to the ground!” Its distracting, its TOTALLY UNREALISTIC and its foolish.

And this- how come every woman we have met in power has to sound like that? Dany, Cersei and a little bit with Maegery? Why are we all so cool with women sounding crazy when they are powerful? I find it sexist, frankly. But, whatever, - I’m the guy who thinks there are some men on the planet that don’t think with their dicks.

Here is my point: Dany does not have to be THAT focused or crazy-talking to be effective; not every meeting has to end with her threatening to kill everyone or burn X or Y to the ground. Its really, really aggravating.

And if everyone in her Kalasar is dead and her handmaiden looks dead too… it may be nice if she gave a flying fuck…

This was, by far, the weakest episode of the season.

Edited by Rockroi

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The "Spice" King, who reminds me of Baron Harkonnen, keeps me wandering into Dune/ASoIaF crossover territory :laugh:

I get the feeling that Doreah is selling out her Khaleesi, too. Would make more sense of why she's still around. The quick preview of next episode made it seem like Dany was suspicious of Jorah. Hope they're not moving the split up.

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Opening with the fall of Winterfell caught me by surprise. I did like Alfie Allen's petulant "I took it" as if he has to prove it even to Bran.

Yeah, me too.

I'm happy they didn't go much in depth about how exactly Winterfell was taken, since that was a part I never found very convincing in the books.

thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

He was simply thinking "Do I know this girl from somewhere?". No problem for me here.

My problem, however, is that he is appearing too much; in fact, only Tyrion and Arya have appeared this much. LF worked best when he stayed out of sight, without you knowing where he is or what the hell he was doing.

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To me the big wuestion is Dagmer=Ramsey? How else does Bolton know everything that is going on in Winterfell. Luwin sent his message before Rodrik was killed.

Whoa. If this is true... mind=blown.

I noticed that Theon is presented with two paths in the same frame- Dagmer's advice vs. Maester Luwen's advice. Alfie Allen's acting this week (this season!) has been incredible. Ser Rodrick's last words were badass.

Some questions:

- I see a few people think Littlefinger recognized Arya. My husband (only about 1/3 through GoT) and I (read them all) both got the impression that it was TYWIN who suspected something (not that she's Arya Stark, but just that he knows she's more than she says). I love the whole Arya/Tywin thing, but perhaps it's because I already loved Tywin, and now they're just making him more likable. When I saw Arya's smile when he complimented her, I anticipated a ragefest over it amongst purists. Oh well. Some of us are enjoying it. (Loved Jaqen's expression when she insists he kill Lorch NOW!)

-San/San fans are feasting on his rescue scene, and it was good. But. It seems to me that, in this season, that the writers are making an effort to lay the foundation for Sansa/Tyrion. Sorry San/San fans?

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Just "implied sex" this week. Obviously Osha and Theon weren't jus lying naked in bed together. Loved Theon's line when he first sees her naked! :lol:

You are completely right.

That whole scene somehow manage to slip my mind when I was talking about everything else I liked. How about we change that to "No Ros!".

My apologies.

Edited by AnikaUnderfoot

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thought this was a great episode, loved theon, loved the riot. my only complaint is the scene with little finger. why is little finger so interested in trying to look at who this cupbearer is? it didn't make any sense. i get that you want to have some tension, but it was over the top, seemed like a comedy routine.

Well, Arya wasn't helping her cause by trying so hard to remain out of his sight...and the fact that she spilled wine all over him contributed to grabbing his attention.

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I've been holding my criticism on the deviations from the books just to see where the show is going. I have to say that I actually enjoy the changes and understand why they chose to do them. I think they've chosen wisely with their deviations. 

The KL scene between Tyrion & Cersei was absolutely epic. Viewers probably don't understand the significance of Cersei telling Tyrion she hopes he loves someone, etc., and the stare down he gives her (readers know that he did truly love someone only to have her taken away). If looks could kill... 

I was floored by naked Osha... But the change worked to get the kids to the crypts. Got to see Rickon, shaggy dog and summer!

I'm not sure if I heard it correctly but it sounded like Ygritte said that Jon's brothers had deserted him (wonderful foreshadowing of his own desertion). The snuggling scene was hilarious. 

I like that Shae actually has a decent scene but I'm not sure how they are going to play that out later. 

I know that people don't like Jaquen's dart but come on the delivery was great! 

And I for one am glad to see more of Tywin. He's just awesome. Can't wait to see some Jaime scenes coming up. 

Although I was caught off guard by the dragons - I'm glad they did it because I always wondered why it never happened in the books. 

Great episode. 

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Ser Rodrik's beheading was a interesting change. It reminded me of Ned's execution with Bran, Rickon and the rest watching helpless. Theon's crossed the line now. There's no turning back for him. And now Dany has to back up all of her big talk without her dragons. Her plot needed a bit of action based drama. But where was Ser Jorah and Doreah? Did the thieves break in or was Dany betrayed?

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Well, Arya wasn't helping her cause by trying so hard to remain out of his sight...and the fact that she spilled wine all over him contributed to grabbing his attention.

sure, but even before then, he spent almost the entire scene trying to see her face. if i were tywin, i would have found it very distracting that petyr wasn't paying attention to what i was saying.

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The "Spice" King, who reminds me of Baron Harkonnen, keeps me wandering into Dune/ASoIaF crossover territory :laugh:

I get the feeling that Doreah is selling out her Khaleesi, too. Would make more sense of why she's still around. The quick preview of next episode made it seem like Dany was suspicious of Jorah. Hope they're not moving the split up.

Ha- he reminded me of Dune as well!

I also got the impression that Dany was angry with Jorah, and wondered if it might be the betrayal, but it can't be so soon, right? Maybe she's just mad at him in more of a "WHERE WERE YOU?!" way.

Jon and Ygritte: *sigh* I just hated almost all of their time together in the books. And now he looks even worse.

Are we sure that Osha and the Stark kids are going to be hiding in the crypts? With the way things are going this season, I wouldn't be surprised if they just leave Winterfell all together and start out towards the Wall.

That's what I was thinking as well.

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You can't possibly still think Talisa is Talisa from Volantis after the scene tonight. She's clearly hiding her identity. Beyond that, Volantis isn't exactly an integral aspect of the Ice and Fire series. I don't think altering the color palette of its people is all that detrimental to anything. It's one thing to make Dany raven-haired, it's pretty inconsequential to make a Volantene one.

Whether she is Volantene isn't the issue, the fact that Rob didn't go "Bullshit!" when she stated it, based on entirely on her appearance, indicates that Valyrian looks in the TV-show are probably going to be restricted entirely to Targaryens, which I hate, since it makes Targaryens magical or special, when they just happen to be a Valyrian family that managed to keep their dragons alive.

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Ser Rodrik's beheading was a interesting change. It reminded me of Ned's execution with Bran, Rickon and the rest watching helpless. Theon's crossed the line now. There's no turning back for him. And now Dany has to back up all of her big talk without her dragons. Her plot needed a bit of action based drama. But where was Ser Jorah and Doreah? Did the thieves break in or was Dany betrayed?

i felt like sir rodriks beheading was a bit of a nod to what's-his-face karstark being beheaded by rob in aSoS where it takes him so many whacks to get the thing off. especially since i doubt they'll ever address that story thread.

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